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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">If you are subject to the Privacy Act,
then keeping the identifiable data for that long may well already
be in breach of the Privacy Act.<br>
Maybe have a look at that. I wouldn't be advertising it too widely
- we're encouraging users to ask their ISPs how long they keep
data records for now, and increasingly they will be choosing ISPs
that keep the records for the shortest time, not the longest.<br>
<br>
You might also ask your accountant whether RADIUS logs are
required to substantiate financial accounts. IANAL, and
IANAAccountant either, but (depending on your charging model) I
would have expected the customer invoices to be sufficient to
substantiate the income, the customer contracts sufficient to
justify sending the invoices. RADIUS not required.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 24/03/2015 10:41 PM, Matt Perkins wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:55114D83.1050008@spectrum.com.au" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Yes the deletion thing is just weird.
Considering our company has for example radius logs which match
IP to customers that go back 12 years! They are going to make us
delete data we already have. I hope I dont miss a backup and
wind up paying back all my grant money in fines. More to the
point. Dont I have a tax obligation to keep those records longer
then 2 years.<br>
<br>
Anyway im gong to get a bex and have a good lie down before I
make anymore commitments for the next party :)<br>
<br>
Matt<br>
<br>
<br>
On 24/03/2015 10:36 pm, Paul Julian wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:72a5d5cf-ab44-4008-90c1-156797b84778@oxygennetworks.com.au"
type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Mate
I agree, but they want us to “think” that they have taken
it into account and will help pay for the costs, whatever
they might be, which we still won’t know until a set
agenda and plan is actually drawn up as the new
legislation and enforced.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
think as discussed here, one of the only ways we may be
able to recover some costs is to charge for access to the
data.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
other interesting thing I saw in the amendments was that
ISP’s will be forced to delete the data after the
mandatory retention period, this will be interesting as to
how they think they can enforce that, just one of many
complicating issues I think though.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> Matt Perkins [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015 10:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Julian; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs
letter to Ministers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul,<br>
Im sure that will work fine for the big guys. But as
there is a written agreement (code for secret agreement)
It's unlikely we will ever know how much each of us will
get. Im still betting on Zero. Im sure just all the work
it will take to get $1 will add up to more then the costs
of implementing the proposed retention system for most
small CSP's<br>
<br>
Matt.<br>
<br>
On 24/03/2015 10:27 pm, Paul Julian wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Directly
from the amendments Matt</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">187KB Commonwealth must make a grant of
financial assistance to service providers <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(1) The Commonwealth must make a grant
of financial assistance to a service provider for the
purpose of assisting the service provider to comply with
the additional costs that service provider’s incur in
complying with the service provider’s obligations under
this Part. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(2) The terms and conditions on which
that financial assistance is granted are to be set out in
a written agreement between the Commonwealth and the
service provider. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(3) An agreement under subsection (2)
may be entered into on behalf of the Commonwealth by the
Minister. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">[costs must be paid]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> AusNOG [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Matt Perkins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 24 March 2015 10:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] CA Data Retention costs
letter to Ministers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ha,<br>
If we see one cent I would be very surprised . The
money they are talking about im sure is all earmarked
for regulation and enforcement of the new regime. As
well as education inside government for access seekers
as to what info they can get. <br>
<br>
Oh not to forget the TV Ad campaign telling the public
why we need it. <br>
<br>
Wasn't this government committed to slashing read tape.
I guess just another lie. <br>
<br>
If we see one cent in compensation other then the normal
tax deductions I will dance naked on a table at the next
IXAU drinks. - Come to think of it that's not much of a
threat - disregard my last. <br>
<br>
Matt<br>
<br>
<br>
On 24/03/2015 10:16 pm, Mark Newton wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">No. Brandis was asked about that
tonight in the Senate. He says it's
cabinet-in-confidence, and a matter for the budget.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">They're going to wing it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> - mark<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 24 Mar 2015, at 10:10 pm,
Russell Langton <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:russell3901@gmail.com">russell3901@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi
All,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">/Apologies if this is general
knowledge, but havn't seen anything.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Following the previous
industry letter, is there any confirmation
about the breakdown in costs of who will pay?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:41
PM, Geordie Guy <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:elomis@gmail.com" target="_blank">elomis@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The bill will pass tonight. Much, much too
little, much, much too late.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>With any luck someone will pass an ammendment
to cover the costs of AusNOG subscribers
ordering new business cards with "Government
Storage Administrator" as the title.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Well done guys.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 24/03/2015 7:47 PM,
"Shane Chrisp" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:shane@2000cn.com.au"
target="_blank">shane@2000cn.com.au</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Thought this may be of interest to
those who have not seen it.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Shane<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email"
target="_blank"><span
style="text-decoration:none"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="http://cdn.getup.org.au/image_7889_full.jpg?t=njyZ5SjZD"
alt="Go dark" border="0"></span></a><br>
<br>
Shane – <br>
<br>
It's happening. The Government's
data retention scheme looks set to
pass the Senate tonight, with
Labor's support. If this happens,
it's a terrible outcome for
Australians, and the media and
whistleblowers who keep us informed.
<br>
<br>
This scheme is rushed, costly,
ineffective, and against the public
interest. A lazy amendment from the
ALP - purportedly to prevent this
dodgy data bill from having a
freezing effect on the media - has
as many holes in it as a slice of
Swiss cheese. It leaves journalists
and whistleblowers largely
unprotected,<sup>1</sup> and will
see every one of us treated as a
potential suspect. Essentially, it
punishes the wrong people. But as
the Government and Labor team up to
rush the legislation through the
Senate, we have a way of getting
their attention by illustrating just
how problematic this bill really is.
<br>
<br>
<b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email"
target="_blank">Can you join us
in 'going dark' against data
retention tomorrow to protest
the Government's dangerous and
ineffective scheme?</a></b> <br>
<br>
The message we're sending is clear.
In its haste to rush these broad
sweeping laws, <b>the Government's
costly scheme has targeted all of
us while ignoring just how easy it
is to circumvent data retention.</b>
The truth is, anyone who wants to
protect their privacy (yes, this
includes people with something to
hide) has a huge range of perfectly
legal options to do so, including
simply avoiding Australian service
providers. Now that's just bad for
business! <br>
<br>
The impact of this is that
Australians familiar with technology
will easily be able to protect their
data, while those that aren't as
comfortable with newer technology
will bear the brunt of the risks
associated with data retention. <br>
<br>
<b>Across Australia tomorrow,
citizens will be showing the
government and Labor that this law
will be another costly white
elephant that doesn't make us any
safer.</b> <br>
<br>
<b>Click here to sign up and learn
how to go dark: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/privacy/go-dark-against-data-retention/go-dark-against-data-retention?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email"
target="_blank">http://www.getup.org.au/dark</a></b>
<br>
<br>
Alycia, for the GetUp team. <br>
<br>
PS: If you've just got a moment, <b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cdn.getup.org.au/991-PROF-PIC-%281%29-%281%29.jpg?t=njyZ5SjZD&utm_content=7635&utm_campaign=You%20can%27t%20handle%20the%20data&utm_source=blast&utm_medium=email"
target="_blank">change your
Facebook and Twitter profile
picture to this image to help
spread the word.</a></b> <br>
<br>
PPS: Even the Government's
Communications Minister Malcolm
Turnbull understands how important
metadata is and how easy it is to
avoid scrutiny. He has fessed up to
using an instant messaging app which
avoids retention, and joked last
year that private networks (VPNs)
could be used to circumvent data
retention laws. By contrast, our
Prime Minister recalls never being
that worried about metadata back
when he was a journalist in the
1980's... at a time that pre-dated
widespread internet and mobile phone
use.<sup>2</sup> Go figure! <br>
<br>
<i>References</i> <br>
<br>
[1] Data retention plan amended for
journalists, but is it enough? The
Conversation, 20th March 2015. <br>
[2] Data retention: Journalists'
union labels Tony Abbott's defence
of metadata protections 'ludicrous',
ABC News, Wednesday 18th March 2015.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net"
target="_blank">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog"
target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog"
target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
AusNOG mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>AusNOG mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net">AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog">http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>/* Matt Perkins <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Office 1300 133 299 <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">matt@spectrum.com.au</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://pgp.mit.edu">http://pgp.mit.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*/<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>/* Matt Perkins <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Office 1300 133 299 <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">matt@spectrum.com.au</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://pgp.mit.edu">http://pgp.mit.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*/<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
/* Matt Perkins
Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
Office 1300 133 299 <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:matt@spectrum.com.au">matt@spectrum.com.au</a>
Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000
PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://pgp.mit.edu">http://pgp.mit.edu</a>
*/
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