[AusNOG] From the AGD - Data Retention - Starts October 15 2015

Mon Jul 20 10:23:38 EST 2015

I believe that implementation plans and acceptance is confidential after
the first submission/acceptance - but I can say that I am categorically not
aware of anyone who has submitted or had their DRIP approved, although I
know of a number of people who are actively working towards the deadline.

Our conversation with the AGD have indicated we would need to supply:

1. The current dataset we have
2. The dataset we believe we will need to have
3. Our plan to get from point (1) to point (2) and the timing to achieve
this. I have not been able to get a reasonable answer on whether a "we
don't know/are developing a strategy" is an acceptable plan.

Thanks,
Andrew

On 20 July 2015 at 10:10, Joseph Goldman <joe at apcs.com.au> wrote:

>  Has anyone on list had their implementation plan submitted and approved?
>
> By this logic of compliance, you wouldn't necessarily need to define the
> 'dataset' you are keeping in the implementation plan (so sourcing
> definitions for different service types need not be necessary), just how
> you plan to implement the plan over the 18 months, giving you time to
> further define the data sets after implementation plan is approved? Or is
> the AGD going to expect your dataset 'assumptions' in the implementation
> plan?
>
> (Again, I do plan to ask directly, but at this rate AusNOG may be a
> quicker answer if someone has already got the answer from the horses mouth).
>
>
> On 20/07/15 10:04, Andrew Yager wrote:
>
>  Hi Shayne,
>
>  Yes, you do have 18 months to "comply"; but you only get access to the
> compliance period if you lodge a DRIP indicating how you will implement
> your compliance plan. Without lodging a DRIP, you are expected to be
> compliant on 13th October.
>
>  Equally, for any new service your bring online (please note that this is
> not a "service" in the technical sense, but a service in the "product"
> sense) you have an 18 month period from when you bring that service online
> to become compliant, provided you lodge an implementation plan that
> outlines how you will do that over that period.
>
>  Thanks,
> Andrew
>
> On 20 July 2015 at 09:38, Shayne <shayne.mcc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know what happened to the original 18 month implementation
>> period ? I'm fairly sure when it first came out 18 months was the
>> compliance period.
>>  On 20 Jul 2015 9:36 am, "Andrew Yager" <andrew at rwts.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joe,
>>>
>>>  The legislation comes into force on 13th October; and the CAC must
>>> approve any DRIPs prior to the enforcement of the legislation. The CAC has
>>> 60 days to approve the DRIP, and so that 60 days before equates to 13th
>>> August.
>>>
>>>  At this stage, I don't see how we are going to hit that date unless we
>>> submit an unfinished half-completed document.
>>>
>>>  Thanks,
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20 July 2015 at 08:51, Joseph Goldman <joe at apcs.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Hi *,
>>>>
>>>>  Looking over the AGD's website, I can no longer find reference to when
>>>> the Implementation Plan has to be submitted by. I recall early documents
>>>> suggesting the plan itself must be in by 13th August 2015, but the only
>>>> date relevant now I can find is 13th October 2015, which is where you must
>>>> start collecting data if you do not have an approved implementation plan.
>>>>
>>>>  I'll obviously email off to the CAC as well, but just wondering if
>>>> anyone can link to specifically where it says the implementation plan must
>>>> be submitted?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 20/07/15 02:32, Paul Wilkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Am I the only one that spotted that this advice is not even
>>>> internally consistent? For the intents and purposes of the act, there is no
>>>> difference between email and usenet. Either both qualify for logging or
>>>> both don't. It's early days, but already the legislation is coming
>>>> unstitched. Happy days...
>>>>
>>>>  Paul Wilkins
>>>>
>>>> On 19 July 2015 at 18:00, Noel Butler <noel.butler at ausics.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  wow missed so much in my absence, there is way too many posts to
>>>>> catch up on and no doubt the fanbois/fangirls will all be scrambling to
>>>>> dispute what I said (like I'm sure the usual suspects will at this post as
>>>>> well), so I wont bother catching up on all of em.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is from the C.A.C. it does clarify that what the AGD told me
>>>>> earlier is incorrect as far as the usenet server goes, but the hosting
>>>>> statements remain valid
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Data retention obligations apply only to ‘relevant services’. A
>>>>> service is a ‘relevant service’ if:*
>>>>> *(a) It is a service for carrying communications, or enabling
>>>>> communications to be carried,*
>>>>> *(b) It is a service operated by a carrier, carriage service provider
>>>>> or internet service provider, and*
>>>>> *(c) The person operating the service owns or operates, in Australia,
>>>>> infrastructure that enables the provision *
>>>>> * of any of its relevant services.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Based on the information you have provided, including the knowledge
>>>>> that you offer an email service, it is likely *
>>>>> *that you are a CSP. The definition of a carriage service provider
>>>>> (CSP) is contained within s87 of the *
>>>>> *Telecommunications Act 1979. Carriage services include services for
>>>>> carrying communications, for example telephone *
>>>>> *services, email services, Internet access services and Voice over
>>>>> Internet Protocol (VoIP) services.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *The services that you have mentioned in your email, being the Usenet
>>>>> news server and the email server, are to be *
>>>>> *considered as two separate services for the purpose of data
>>>>> retention.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *The email server you have described will likely be captured by data
>>>>> retention obligations unless an exemption is *
>>>>> *sought and agreed to. In applying the data set to an e-mail service,
>>>>> data retention obligations will include all *
>>>>> *information contained in the ‘header’ of the email, excluding the
>>>>> subject line. No content is to be retained for *
>>>>> *data retention purposes.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Based on the information you have provided, we consider that UseNet
>>>>> does not appear to be a ‘relevant service’. *
>>>>> *If the service is not considered a relevant service then no data
>>>>> retention obligations will be applicable.*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Dept of Comms  has confirmed that as a hosting provider we are
>>>>> classified as a CSP.
>>>>>
>>>>> So after that, if you, or anyone expect me to take the word of a bunch
>>>>> of mailing list "bush lawyers" over the CAC, you're all clearly on some
>>>>> kinda weird and wonderful drugs, and no amount of "bush laywer" ignorance
>>>>> will change that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't think for a moment I'm a proponent of this law - I'm far from
>>>>> it, but its a reality, so time to get your heads out of your arses and live
>>>>> with it, rather than trying to find far flung reaches of piss poor excuses
>>>>> as to how you're not going to have to comply, ignorance wont save you, or
>>>>> your employers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Enjoy your weekend
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16/06/2015 13:07, Justin Clacherty wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> No Noel, I think you've misinterpreted the AGD's response.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are only obligated to retain data if you fall under 187A 3(b) of
>>>>> the Act. That is, you are a carriage service provider, or an ISP. The
>>>>> Minister can add other providers to be ratified within 40 days by
>>>>> Parliament, but this has not yet occurred.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you do fall under 187A 3(b) of the Act. Then you have to retain
>>>>> data for all services you offer, this would include web hosting and email.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you only offer web hosting, you are not an ISP and do not have data
>>>>> retention obligations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> AusNOG mailing list
>>>>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>> CP)*
>>>  Real World Technology Solutions - IT People you can trust
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>>> rwts.com.au | 1300 798 718
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>      *Andrew Yager, Managing Director* *(BCompSc, JNCIS-SP, MACS (Snr)
> CP)*
>  Real World Technology Solutions - IT People you can trust
> Voice | Data | IT Procurement | Managed IT
> rwts.com.au | 1300 798 718
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-- 
*Andrew Yager, Managing Director* *(BCompSc, JNCIS-SP, MACS (Snr) CP)*
Real World Technology Solutions - IT People you can trust
Voice | Data | IT Procurement | Managed IT
rwts.com.au | 1300 798 718

*Real World is a Dell Premier Partner*

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