[AusNOG] Sysadmin opportunities in Melbourne?
Nick Stallman
nick at agentpoint.com
Tue Jan 6 12:58:12 EST 2015
As a 'youth' (under 30) who has been employed solidly for many years, I
think salary not the right focus.
The problem is the 'inexperience' rather than the amount it costs.
If you are going for inexperienced people then you are just looking for
bodies.
Would 10 inexperienced people at $2/hr really be better than one
experienced person paid $20/hr?
Would I employ a new uni graduate? Nope - not a chance no matter what
the price was.
They don't have any of the skills I'd need them to have.
Universities aren't producing useful workers in IT.
Job postings aren't supposed to be training opportunities, usually the
person posting them actually has a job that needs to get done.
On 06/01/15 12:48, Giles Pollock wrote:
> As a previously unemployed youth, I completely agree! The issue is
> pretty multi-faceted though. On one side the employers have no
> incentive to employ and train up young inexperienced kids, while on
> another they continue to bleat about a skills shortage in IT in
> general, which can only be fixed via 457s.
>
> I've long argued that any IT skills shortage that exists can be
> rectified by providing the appropriate incentives to employ and more
> importantly, train existing locals. There are more than enough people
> out there, but they are not being considered for roles as they aren't
> able to tick the right boxes when the job is sourced to the market.
>
> In part I also blame what I call an 'instant gratification' attitude
> (on all sides). This can be seen in new young employees who expect to
> be CEO in a few years (and are already practicing the attitude), and
> in employers who expect 10 years experience on systems/software that
> has only existed for three years, and to get it with no need for
> training or remunerating appropriately.
>
> To those out there looking for jobs and getting no results, don't lose
> hope. There is a LOT of competition! I must have applied for hundreds
> of jobs, in many cases I was up against hundreds of other applicants.
> Stick with it and keep trying. Once you are in the door for an
> interview is your opportunity to really show what you can do and more
> importantly, what you can learn to do.
>
> To those out there looking for new employees, don't forget that it is
> not all about ticking boxes. You might have an applicant who hasn't
> had experience in product A, but has spent the last 10 years working
> on something in a different field which requires a very similar
> skillset. Most people can learn, so it shouldn't be all about what
> pieces of industry paper they claim to have. Figure out what kind of
> person you want for a role before deciding on what they should already
> claim to know, and more importantly make that clear in the
> advertisements you post on job boards!
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Paul Wallace
> <paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au <mailto:paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au>> wrote:
>
> The min wage here is $16.88 per hour (unless it's gone up again in
> the meantime).
>
> The point we were talking about is youth unemployment Giles
>
> Employers are not provided with any incentives to employ,
> uneducated inexperienced kids (even though they'd like to) 18 year
> olds when the min wage is $40k per annum (once you add super,
> leave loading, sick pay, public holidays, 4 weeks holidays, paid
> carers leave & other entitlements in)
>
> something needs to change & unfortunately the current Gov doesn't
> have any appetite for IR reform.
>
> -P
>
> *From:*AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
> <mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] *On Behalf Of *Giles Pollock
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 6 January 2015 11:19 AM
> *To:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net <mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sysadmin opportunities in Melbourne?
>
> Minimum wage in Australia for tech jobs? Last time I checked the
> contractor rates for a service desk analyst were A$12.50 (if you
> were lucky)... Yes, you can get more working on a checkout
> (assuming they have not been replaced with self-checkouts)
>
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Paul Wallace
> <paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au <mailto:paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au>> wrote:
>
> http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2012/07/13/australian-minimum-wage-myth
>
> The unseen consequences of minimum wage laws are the millions of
> poor, disadvantaged people who don't have job opportunities. In
> the United States, it hurts poor people and inner-city minorities
> <http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2011/05/11/minimum_wages_discriminatory_effects>.
> In Australia, it hurts young workers
> <http://www.smh.com.au/business/young-workers-hit-by-rising-unemployment-20120124-1qevx.html>.
>
> Australia is an example of how minimum wage helps some groups, and
> hurts others. Even in a good economy, the young, inexperienced
> workers are left out.
>
> -P
>
> *From:*AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
> <mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] *On Behalf Of *Scott Howard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 6 January 2015 11:02 AM
> *To:* Paul Wallace
> *Cc:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net <mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sysadmin opportunities in Melbourne?
>
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Paul Wallace
> <paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au <mailto:paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au>> wrote:
>
> Kids find it hard to get jobs today because Australia enforces a
> min wage of double that in the USA.
>
> it's as simple as that!
>
> And now Tony Abbott is too scared to look at HR reform for fear
> the Labour party will scream "Work Choices" again!
>
> Minimum wage in San Francisco - US$11.05, or around A$13.63
>
> Minimum wage in Sydney - A$16.87 (for someone over 21).
>
> Higher? Yes. Double? Not even close.
>
> Yes, other parts of the US may be lower, but the movement is
> towards increasing to sane levels, not reducing them.
>
> Scott
>
>
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--
Nick Stallman
Agentpoint Pty Ltd
The Real Estate Web Developers
Melbourne | Sydney | Miami
nick at agentpoint.com
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