[AusNOG] Draft Copyright Notice Scheme basic survey results so far...

Thu Feb 26 17:49:18 EST 2015

Taking all comments into account I think some of you may be missing my point with this.

The point is that lots of people are talking about this, everybody has an opinion on the matter, well mostly anyway, and my thought was just to throw some quick questions together and gauge people’s feelings on those to try and collate some degree of thought about the subject.

I know it’s not perfect, and I know it’s not accurate, it’s not meant to be it’s a general feeling by people who respond on the subject, but I haven’t seen any other interest so far in putting together some type of combined response to this proposed scheme, and considering that so many people are apparently not happy with it or don’t like where it’s going why isn’t anybody making any effort to do something ?

In car clubs that I have been a part of for many years when something is trying to be changed about vehicle related laws we band together and put a list of comments or objections together and present it as a group to respond to things we think are unfair or unreasonable like the hoon laws and stuff, despite what some people think the government does listen to groups of people who have genuine concerns and voice them in a constructive and sensible manner, neither of which I have seen an indication of from anybody as yet excepting those individuals who have responded.

So if half a dozen people send a 1 page response with a couple of issues to Commcom about this that’s great, but we need a couple of hundred responses or a summarised response which is actually put together by lots of people, otherwise this will just get passed and then everybody will complain about it when it is, but couldn’t be bothered doing anything about it when they had a chance.

Now is our chance to act, we have a couple of weeks to do something which may well make a difference, let’s do it rather than saying how my survey sucked J at least I’m trying……

Perhaps we should be putting some responses together and people could use those as their response and send it in, at least it would be something.

Regards
Paul

From: Mark ZZZ Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2015 11:02 AM
To: Paul Julian; 'Steve Smalley'; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Draft Copyright Notice Scheme basic survey results so far...

While I am not a lawer, I'm sure one of your questions isn't legal for an ISP to follow:

"Will you be considering what options you have to circumvent the code if such a scheme is implemented ?"

If this becomes law, it would be illegal for ISPs to circumvent it, and if you try to, the government will probably take away your telecommunications license and then you're out of business.

Since 80% of your respondents say they would try to circumvent it, that suggests to me that 80% of your respondents are probably individuals who don't work for ISPs.

My fundamental concern is that this survey isn't presented as representing the views of AusNOG (or more loosely, "AusNOG mailing list subscribers"). 

From: Paul Julian <paul at oxygennetworks.com.au>
To: 'Steve Smalley' <ssmalley at trimblenet.com.au>; 'Mark ZZZ Smith' <markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net 
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2015, 10:34
Subject: RE: [AusNOG] Draft Copyright Notice Scheme basic survey results so far...

Hi Steve and Mark, I totally understand your position and nobody is forcing anybody to do it, I’m sorry if that’s how it came across, if somebody is interested and wants to participate then great, otherwise no problems at all J

I was just being general in my suggestion that most people on the list would be affected by this, even as a consumer though people will be affected, and also why I suggested to send to anybody else in the industry who may be interested, even any other lists, please feel free to forward it to anybody who it will affect, the more responses it gets the more accurate the data will be I think.

The link is: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/92BQ7KL

Regards
Paul

From: Steve Smalley [mailto:ssmalley at trimblenet.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2015 10:21 AM
To: Mark ZZZ Smith; Paul Julian; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: RE: [AusNOG] Draft Copyright Notice Scheme basic survey results so far...

I agree with Mark, I myself do not work for or represent and ISP, I work for an MSP and use this forum for monitoring potential outages/issues as well as other topical information…  some of which I have found highly useful other times… not so much.  For this reason I have not completed the survey as I don’t feel I’m an appropriate candidate but certainly can’t speak for anyone else within this forum.  I’ve certainly read the draft code and agree with most of the responses collected.  

While the results so far are interesting I’d have to be sceptical as to whether this truly represents the ISP population throughout Australia.  

Kind Regards,

Steve Smalley

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Mark ZZZ Smith
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2015 09:09
To: Paul Julian; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Draft Copyright Notice Scheme basic survey results so far...

I'd be careful of assuming it "gauge[s] interest and thoughts from people such as those on this list, the people who matter and make up the industry that we work in every day." Going by the off-topic posts to this list in the last few years, and the number of mailing list subscribers, I doubt the "AusNOG membership" is dominated by people working for ISPs any more.

From: Paul Julian <paul at oxygennetworks.com.au>
To: "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2015, 9:44
Subject: [AusNOG] Draft Copyright Notice Scheme basic survey results so far...

Thanks for those who has responded to the basic survey I put together, and also to those who provided some feedback, I think it’s a good thing to throw these sorts of things together and gauge interest and thoughts from people such as those on this list, the people who matter and make up the industry that we work in every day.

I know not everybody likes doing these sort of things and fair enough, but I thought it was great way to get some info which was useful and not just hearsay.

The survey has been up for a couple of days now and there have been 53 responses so far which is pretty good, it would be great to get 200+ responses to get a real feel for peoples thoughts.

Anyway, basic results so far are as follows:

 Yes
 No 
 Don't Know

Have you read the draft code ?
 80.77%
 19.23%
 0.00%

Do you agree with its recommendations ?
 3.77%
 90.57%
 5.66%

Do you feel that this represents your thoughts ?
 3.77%
 88.68%
 7.55%

Do you feel that it addresses the issue and provides a workable solution ?
 5.66%
 84.91%
 9.43%

Do you agree that an ISP should be responsible for the content that it's users access ?
 0.00%
 98.11%
 1.89%

Do you think that implementing such a notice scheme will cost your business money ?
 92.45%
 5.66%
 1.89%

Will you be considering what options you have to circumvent the code if such a scheme is implemented ?
 81.13%
 7.55%
 11.32%

There are some pretty strong results in this and I think this mostly reflects the comments from people on this list so far, I am happy to send these results in a submission to the draft scheme once a reasonable amount of people respond and it reflects a decent proportion of our industry.

I am also more than happy to expand or change this survey if people think I am off the mark, so please let me know if you think of anything.

If you haven’t already completed it then it will only take about 30 seconds to do, or pass onto other people in the industry who you feel may be interested in this important subject.

Thanks and sorry to spam you if you aren’t interested in this.

Regards
Paul

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