[AusNOG] ADSL2+ Aggregation at LNS without MLPPP HOWTO

Sat Sep 13 07:26:43 EST 2014

What about bringing up three EOIP tunnels (one on each ADSL) to a server
you control with an additional /30 routed to it.  Then bridge the three
tunnels on both ends, and drop the two IP's on the /30 on each end of the
bridged tunnel, and NAT your workstation out that IP?

Of course that's assuming Annex M isn't available on your exchange ;)

On 13 September 2014 00:57, Ben Cooper <ben at zeno.io> wrote:

> But what if we really need the upload bandwidth? (ie id take the
> downstream hit if it means my upstream is improved greatly.)
>
> Backstory:
>
> In my spare time, I stream myself playing games either casually or
> competitively up to twitch. although latley None(read: 3) of my ADSL
> connections have had the upstream to realiably stream.
>
> I have been hunting for a way to join the 3 of them to try get the upload
> I need to stream again, without any luck. I run PFsense as core routing,
> but have some microtiks here i can toss in, if it means i can get better
> upload.
>
> Else im going to have to get a microwave connection installed.
>
> i am currently for the last week using 4G prepaid dongles and just
> dropping $100 on the tesltra plan and then spending it all on datapack
> right away, netting about 8-10 gb of data.
>
> If anyone has any suggestions to try, I am all ears.
>
> TLDR: I need more upload, badly.
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Jarrad Mitchell <ausnog at outlook.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> *I would expect that any form of 'single ip' ADSL Bonding is impractical
>> for you.  If you must, you are best of to use Per-Destination Load
>> Balancing with two separate ISPs, and perhaps route specific services
>> through the better link. *
>>
>>
>> *What follows is the technical reasoning and logical analysis that lead
>> to the aforementioned conclusion*
>>
>>
>> *Why 'Bonding / Teaming Aggregating' two ADSL etc links is usually a Very
>> Bad Idea *
>>
>> ALL NETWORK INTERFACE (Including ADSL) 'Aggregation/Bonding/Teaming' that
>> results in increased throughput across a single path (a connection between
>> two computers/IPs eg your home pc to youtube.com) almost always results
>> in a link that is at best just below TWICE the speed of the SLOWEST link.
>>
>> This is not always a problem.  For example, if you have two 100mbit fibre
>> optic links over 1km, they are very unlikely to vary in their
>> 'transmission' properties; that is to say, they are unlikely to vary
>> considerably in how long it takes to ping the other end etc.  With a
>> connection like this, where BOTH of the Aggregate / Team 'members' can be
>> described as electrically/physically 'identical / significantly similar', a
>> good quality, reliable increase in performance can be achieved.
>>
>>
>> *Key Insight 1: Multiple Link Aggregates that increase Single Path
>> Throughput ONLY EVER make sense when using IDENTICAL Aggregate Members.*
>>
>> Knowing this, we next need to consider why ADSL Technology was developed.
>>  Simply put, it was designed to leverage EXISTING, VERY OLD Balanced
>> Transmission Line to deliver 'high speed' internet access.  And it does a
>> wonderful job indeed.  But just what exactly is this existing
>> infrastructure?  The PTSN is/has in most cases (if not all):
>>
>> - Based on old *two pair non twisted transmission line* that was never
>> designed for data.
>> - Had previous network modifications (been connected and disconnected,
>> redesigned etc)
>> - Been previously upgraded (Pulse to DTMF Dialing for example)
>> - Been previously re-purposed (ISDN)
>> - Been expanded well beyond its original design, inconsistantly (Loading
>> Coils, Pair Gain Systems & RIMS).
>>
>>
>> *Key Insight 2: Any Two Pairs between an Exchange and the Customer are
>> VERY UNLIKELY to be 'identical / significantly similar'.*
>>
>> Some people might wish to point out that EFM / SHDSL & Similar use
>> exactly the above to deliver a good service.  And they're right, from a
>> delivered service (Marketing?) perspective.  *Remember how I pointed out
>> that a Aggregate will run at the speed of its slowest member?  EFM & SHDSL
>> simply takes a bunch of pairs, and deliberately uses less bandwidth on all
>> of them them than even the poorest can handle, then combines them. *
>>
>> I have personally seen 8 PAIRS (16 wires) used to deliver 10mbit / 10mbit
>> EFM!  To put this into perspective, a single near ideal pair can deliver
>> 20mbit Simplex (one way) over 1Km using only 2MHz of bandwidth.  VDSL2+
>> over 500m, with its increased bandwidth would greatly exceed that!
>>
>> *Key Insight 3: YOU CAN make a bunch of DISSIMILAR (electrically) Links
>> look Similar (logically) if you are prepared to make individual BANDWIDTH
>> SACRIFICES.*
>>
>>
>> *Conclusion*
>> *And there in lies the reality.  At say $30 per pair, it doesn't make
>> sense economically to Aggregate a 18000/900 Kbps pair with a 9000/850 Kbps
>> pair.  Because to do so reliably, you're likely to end up with 17000 / 1600
>> Kbps!!!!*
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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> --
> Ben Cooper
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> Zeno Holdings PTY LTD
> P: +61 7 3503 8553
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>
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