[AusNOG] ADSL2+ Aggregation at LNS without MLPPP HOWTO

Sat Sep 13 06:48:15 EST 2014

Easiest option, are there any Annex M providers with a DSLAM in your area? 

2nd easiest and maybe cheaper than professional microwave, EoC/EFM services if available in your area? 

On 13 September 2014 00:57:14 GMT+10:00, Ben Cooper <ben at zeno.io> wrote:
>But what if we really need the upload bandwidth? (ie id take the
>downstream
>hit if it means my upstream is improved greatly.)
>
>Backstory:
>
>In my spare time, I stream myself playing games either casually or
>competitively up to twitch. although latley None(read: 3) of my ADSL
>connections have had the upstream to realiably stream.
>
>I have been hunting for a way to join the 3 of them to try get the
>upload I
>need to stream again, without any luck. I run PFsense as core routing,
>but
>have some microtiks here i can toss in, if it means i can get better
>upload.
>
>Else im going to have to get a microwave connection installed.
>
>i am currently for the last week using 4G prepaid dongles and just
>dropping
>$100 on the tesltra plan and then spending it all on datapack right
>away,
>netting about 8-10 gb of data.
>
>If anyone has any suggestions to try, I am all ears.
>
>TLDR: I need more upload, badly.
>
>On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Jarrad Mitchell
><ausnog at outlook.com.au>
>wrote:
>
>> *I would expect that any form of 'single ip' ADSL Bonding is
>impractical
>> for you.  If you must, you are best of to use Per-Destination Load
>> Balancing with two separate ISPs, and perhaps route specific services
>> through the better link. *
>>
>>
>> *What follows is the technical reasoning and logical analysis that
>lead to
>> the aforementioned conclusion*
>>
>>
>> *Why 'Bonding / Teaming Aggregating' two ADSL etc links is usually a
>Very
>> Bad Idea *
>>
>> ALL NETWORK INTERFACE (Including ADSL) 'Aggregation/Bonding/Teaming'
>that
>> results in increased throughput across a single path (a connection
>between
>> two computers/IPs eg your home pc to youtube.com) almost always
>results
>> in a link that is at best just below TWICE the speed of the SLOWEST
>link.
>>
>> This is not always a problem.  For example, if you have two 100mbit
>fibre
>> optic links over 1km, they are very unlikely to vary in their
>> 'transmission' properties; that is to say, they are unlikely to vary
>> considerably in how long it takes to ping the other end etc.  With a
>> connection like this, where BOTH of the Aggregate / Team 'members'
>can be
>> described as electrically/physically 'identical / significantly
>similar', a
>> good quality, reliable increase in performance can be achieved.
>>
>>
>> *Key Insight 1: Multiple Link Aggregates that increase Single Path
>> Throughput ONLY EVER make sense when using IDENTICAL Aggregate
>Members.*
>>
>> Knowing this, we next need to consider why ADSL Technology was
>developed.
>>  Simply put, it was designed to leverage EXISTING, VERY OLD Balanced
>> Transmission Line to deliver 'high speed' internet access.  And it
>does a
>> wonderful job indeed.  But just what exactly is this existing
>> infrastructure?  The PTSN is/has in most cases (if not all):
>>
>> - Based on old *two pair non twisted transmission line* that was
>never
>> designed for data.
>> - Had previous network modifications (been connected and
>disconnected,
>> redesigned etc)
>> - Been previously upgraded (Pulse to DTMF Dialing for example)
>> - Been previously re-purposed (ISDN)
>> - Been expanded well beyond its original design, inconsistantly
>(Loading
>> Coils, Pair Gain Systems & RIMS).
>>
>>
>> *Key Insight 2: Any Two Pairs between an Exchange and the Customer
>are
>> VERY UNLIKELY to be 'identical / significantly similar'.*
>>
>> Some people might wish to point out that EFM / SHDSL & Similar use
>exactly
>> the above to deliver a good service.  And they're right, from a
>delivered
>> service (Marketing?) perspective.  *Remember how I pointed out that a
>> Aggregate will run at the speed of its slowest member?  EFM & SHDSL
>simply
>> takes a bunch of pairs, and deliberately uses less bandwidth on all
>of them
>> them than even the poorest can handle, then combines them. *
>>
>> I have personally seen 8 PAIRS (16 wires) used to deliver 10mbit /
>10mbit
>> EFM!  To put this into perspective, a single near ideal pair can
>deliver
>> 20mbit Simplex (one way) over 1Km using only 2MHz of bandwidth. 
>VDSL2+
>> over 500m, with its increased bandwidth would greatly exceed that!
>>
>> *Key Insight 3: YOU CAN make a bunch of DISSIMILAR (electrically)
>Links
>> look Similar (logically) if you are prepared to make individual
>BANDWIDTH
>> SACRIFICES.*
>>
>>
>> *Conclusion*
>> *And there in lies the reality.  At say $30 per pair, it doesn't make
>> sense economically to Aggregate a 18000/900 Kbps pair with a 9000/850
>Kbps
>> pair.  Because to do so reliably, you're likely to end up with 17000
>/ 1600
>> Kbps!!!!*
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>-- 
>--
>Ben Cooper
>CEO
>Zeno Holdings PTY LTD
>P: +61 7 3503 8553
>M: 0410411301
>E: ben at zeno.io
>W: *http://zeno.io <http://zeno.io>*
>
>
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