[AusNOG] Going beyond ADSL in a non-NBN world

[Guy Ellis]

Hi Paul,

I think the key to your problem is...
"At the moment most of our sites use a standard consumer-grade ADSL 
modem in bridging mode"
That would imply that you don't have access to any DSL stats from the modem?

Unless you can obtain the RS Error counters from the DSL modem, you will 
remain in the dark.

You simply can't accurately diagnose DSL problems at the IP layer.
That's a bit like using a speedo to diagnose a faulty spark plug.

Cheers,
  - Guy.


On 24/03/2014 10:16 PM, Paul Gear wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I asked this on IRC today and after discussing it for a while with 
> various people I agreed that it needed a fuller expression here. (It 
> has also been posted to SAGE-AU - apologies to those on both lists.)
>
> My biggest client has a growing network of about 30 branch offices 
> scattered around Queensland, mostly connected on ADSL, almost 
> exclusively through iiNet.  We've had a number of poor support 
> experiences recently, particularly last week where I was flown in on 
> site to try to resolve some connectivity issues.  I had logged a fault 
> on the line and was told a Telstra tech would visit site early in the 
> week.  When the Telstra tech didn't show, I rang iiNet and was told 
> that Telstra had decided there were no problems with the line (and so 
> didn't bother coming on site), and was told the fault was resolved, 
> despite the fact that I was still experiencing 20% packet loss on 
> pings, and tens of thousands of receive CRC errors every hour.  When I 
> pushed for more information, I was told that there was a congestion 
> issue on that DSLAM and it wouldn't be fixed for another 2.5 months.  
> (Somebody please tell me how congestion can cause CRC errors!)  So 
> over the week, I got a lot more familiar with ABC Jazz (iiNet's hold 
> music), and came to the conclusion that we need to investigate 
> alternatives to ADSL (and iiNet).
>
> What I'm looking for is (in rough order of importance):
>
>  1. better line reliability
>  2. better line monitoring (so that I can prove I'm getting better
>     reliability)
>  3. access to technical support which is more thorough, transparent,
>     communicative, and technical
>  4. better uplink speeds
>
> At the moment most of our sites use a standard consumer-grade ADSL 
> modem in bridging mode, and our Linux firewall runs the PPPoE 
> connection and an OpenVPN tunnel to our data centres.  We could get #2 
> simply by using a more advanced CPE (e.g. Cisco 88x series has been 
> recommended), but all this it would do is prove that we have a bad 
> line.  Finding an ISP that is big enough to understand how to deal 
> with Telstra but small enough to talk technical with us will solve #3, 
> but #1 & #4 are problematic.  Many of our sites are regional, so Metro 
> Ethernet will not likely be available.  Some of them are 6+ km from 
> their local exchanges, and, as a special bonus, get terrible 3G 
> reception.  MPLS doesn't seem to solve the issue of line quality or 
> monitoring - it works with whatever L2 technology is there. Most ISPs 
> EoC offerings seem to be just bonded SHDSL, and there's no guarantee 
> the ISP is actually monitoring the pairs that make up the EoC bundle, 
> and I'm told that they generally don't monitor it until the customer 
> complains.
>
> So getting down to my actual questions:
>
>   * What technology is the most cost-effective step up from ADSL,
>     given the above parameters?
>   * What CPE would you recommend for getting useful quality metrics
>     about the line (exposed via SNMP or some other openly standardised
>     method) so that we can go straight to the ISP with hard data when
>     a line fails?
>   * How relevant is OAM as part of this solution?
>
> My current thinking is tending towards SHDSL with low-end 
> Cisco/Juniper CPE.  In the sites where it's viable, obviously we'd go 
> fibre in preference to copper if the cost difference were low.  Either 
> way, this would be a big cost increase over our current setup, so I 
> need to convince management (and be convinced myself) that this will 
> actually be a cost-benefit win on the reliability, monitoring, and 
> support sides.
>
> Any thoughts?  I'm happy to take off-list plugs from relevant service 
> providers, as long as you're OK with the fact that you'll be behind 
> our existing suppliers in the queue.  (Please, no offers of fully 
> managed network services.  No offense, but I just don't believe that 
> you care about our connections enough to monitor them well.)
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>
>
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-- 
Guy Ellis
guy at traverse.com.au
www.traverse.com.au
T: +61 3 9386 4435 M: +61 419 398 234

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