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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Paul,<br>
<br>
I think the key to your problem is...<br>
"At the moment most of our sites use a standard consumer-grade
ADSL modem in bridging mode"<br>
That would imply that you don't have access to any DSL stats from
the modem?<br>
<br>
Unless you can obtain the RS Error counters from the DSL modem,
you will remain in the dark.<br>
<br>
You simply can't accurately diagnose DSL problems at the IP layer.<br>
That's a bit like using a speedo to diagnose a faulty spark plug.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
- Guy.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 24/03/2014 10:16 PM, Paul Gear wrote:<br>
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Hi all,<br>
<br>
I asked this on IRC today and after discussing it for a while with
various people I agreed that it needed a fuller expression here.
(It has also been posted to SAGE-AU - apologies to those on both
lists.)<br>
<br>
My biggest client has a growing network of about 30 branch offices
scattered around Queensland, mostly connected on ADSL, almost
exclusively through iiNet. We've had a number of poor support
experiences recently, particularly last week where I was flown in
on site to try to resolve some connectivity issues. I had logged
a fault on the line and was told a Telstra tech would visit site
early in the week. When the Telstra tech didn't show, I rang
iiNet and was told that Telstra had decided there were no problems
with the line (and so didn't bother coming on site), and was told
the fault was resolved, despite the fact that I was still
experiencing 20% packet loss on pings, and tens of thousands of
receive CRC errors every hour. When I pushed for more
information, I was told that there was a congestion issue on that
DSLAM and it wouldn't be fixed for another 2.5 months. (Somebody
please tell me how congestion can cause CRC errors!) So over the
week, I got a lot more familiar with ABC Jazz (iiNet's hold
music), and came to the conclusion that we need to investigate
alternatives to ADSL (and iiNet).<br>
<br>
What I'm looking for is (in rough order of importance):<br>
<ol>
<li>better line reliability</li>
<li>better line monitoring (so that I can prove I'm getting
better reliability)<br>
</li>
<li>access to technical support which is more thorough,
transparent, communicative, and technical<br>
</li>
<li>better uplink speeds</li>
</ol>
<p>At the moment most of our sites use a standard consumer-grade
ADSL modem in bridging mode, and our Linux firewall runs the
PPPoE connection and an OpenVPN tunnel to our data centres. We
could get #2 simply by using a more advanced CPE (e.g. Cisco 88x
series has been recommended), but all this it would do is prove
that we have a bad line. Finding an ISP that is big enough to
understand how to deal with Telstra but small enough to talk
technical with us will solve #3, but #1 & #4 are
problematic. Many of our sites are regional, so Metro Ethernet
will not likely be available. Some of them are 6+ km from their
local exchanges, and, as a special bonus, get terrible 3G
reception. MPLS doesn't seem to solve the issue of line quality
or monitoring - it works with whatever L2 technology is there.
Most ISPs EoC offerings seem to be just bonded SHDSL, and
there's no guarantee the ISP is actually monitoring the pairs
that make up the EoC bundle, and I'm told that they generally
don't monitor it until the customer complains.<br>
</p>
<p>So getting down to my actual questions:<br>
</p>
<ul>
<li>What technology is the most cost-effective step up from
ADSL, given the above parameters?<br>
</li>
<li>What CPE would you recommend for getting useful quality
metrics about the line (exposed via SNMP or some other openly
standardised method) so that we can go straight to the ISP
with hard data when a line fails?</li>
<li>How relevant is OAM as part of this solution?<br>
</li>
</ul>
<p>My current thinking is tending towards SHDSL with low-end
Cisco/Juniper CPE. In the sites where it's viable, obviously
we'd go fibre in preference to copper if the cost difference
were low. Either way, this would be a big cost increase over
our current setup, so I need to convince management (and be
convinced myself) that this will actually be a cost-benefit win
on the reliability, monitoring, and support sides.<br>
</p>
<p>Any thoughts? I'm happy to take off-list plugs from relevant
service providers, as long as you're OK with the fact that
you'll be behind our existing suppliers in the queue. (Please,
no offers of fully managed network services. No offense, but I
just don't believe that you care about our connections enough to
monitor them well.)<br>
</p>
<p>Thanks,<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
</p>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Guy Ellis
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:guy@traverse.com.au">guy@traverse.com.au</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.traverse.com.au">www.traverse.com.au</a>
T: +61 3 9386 4435 M: +61 419 398 234
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