[AusNOG] Global switch Level 4 Hard disk's
Tony de Francesco
tonyd at pue.com.au
Mon Jan 13 18:51:03 EST 2014
Just a note about hypoxic systems: they work by keeping oxygen levels low
100% of the time so a fire can never start. An FM200 or Inergen system is
used after a fire starts.
Regards
Tony de Francesco
Technical Director
P.U.E. Pty Ltd
Mob: +61 (0) 457 701 179
Email: tonyd at pue.com.au
On 13/01/2014 6:48 PM, "Tony de Francesco" <tonyd at pue.com.au> wrote:
> Sorry just had look and they use a pre-action system that is supplemented
> with Inergen, which woukd have allowed a reduced Inergen volume.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony de Francesco
> Technical Director
> P.U.E. Pty Ltd
> Mob: +61 (0) 457 701 179
> Email: tonyd at pue.com.au
> On 13/01/2014 6:40 PM, "Matt Perkins" <matt at spectrum.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Global switches incident report states that the use inergen
>> Matt
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> /* Matt Perkins
>> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
>> Office 1300 133 299 matt at spectrum.com.au
>> Fax 1300 133 255 Level 6, 350 George Street Sydney 2000
>> SIP 1300137379 at sip.spectrum.com.au
>> Google Talk MattAPerkins at gmail.com
>> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at http://pgp.mit.edu
>> */
>>
>> On 13 Jan 2014, at 18:38, Matt Carter <mattc at mansol.net.au> wrote:
>>
>> No more space than you need for a air handling room a ups room or some
>> twin turbo v16 generators ;) if you had a hand in building it from the slab
>> of course ;) eg iseek has always used inergen and as far as I'm aware will
>> continue to do so .
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 13 Jan 2014, at 17:36, "Tony de Francesco" <tonyd at pue.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Given the floor plate sizes at Global Switch you'll probably find they
>> use FM200.
>>
>> Inergen is typically used in smalller DCs because of the volume of gas
>> that is required (and the resulting flopr space requirements to house it),
>> not necessarily because of cost.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Tony de Francesco
>> Technical Director
>> P.U.E. Pty Ltd
>> Mob: +61 (0) 457 701 179
>> Email: tonyd at pue.com.au
>> On 13/01/2014 6:17 PM, "Joshua D'Alton" <joshua at railgun.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Suffice to say it still isn't recommended to actually sustain breathing
>>> in such an environment, but the couple minutes it could take you to vacate
>>> a DC (or affected area) you'll do fine breathing that. Possibly not so much
>>> those with asthma or lung issues, but you shouldn't pass out or the like.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Ben Buxton <bb.ausnog at bb.cactii.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The volume discharged is calculated such that residual O2 remains
>>>> (about 10% v/v). The CO2 is intended to induce a physiological reaction
>>>> which causes you to breath heavier to compensate.
>>>>
>>>> There's probably a page describing the reasoning behind the numbers
>>>> (wikipedia maybe?)
>>>>
>>>> BB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Tony de Francesco <tonyd at pue.com.au>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And last time I drew a breathe I could not live on a mixture of 52%
>>>>> nitrogen, 40% argon and 8% carbon dioxide.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony de Francesco
>>>>> Technical Director
>>>>> P.U.E. Pty Ltd
>>>>> Mob: +61 (0) 457 701 179
>>>>> Email: tonyd at pue.com.au
>>>>> On 13/01/2014 5:45 PM, "Tony de Francesco" <tonyd at pue.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes but Inergen is not used in large DCs because of the volume
>>>>>> required.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The European system is a hypoxic system at low pressure. Very
>>>>>> different to dumping a whole bunch of gas through high pressure nozzles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony de Francesco
>>>>>> Technical Director
>>>>>> P.U.E. Pty Ltd
>>>>>> Mob: +61 (0) 457 701 179
>>>>>> Email: tonyd at pue.com.au
>>>>>> On 13/01/2014 5:33 PM, "Ben Buxton" <bb.ausnog at bb.cactii.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Inergen is an inert system. It's just Nitrogen, Argon and CO2,
>>>>>>> perfectly safe for humans to breath the resulting atmosphere
>>>>>>> post-discharge, as it still contains enough oxygen to support life but not
>>>>>>> fire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Tony de Francesco <tonyd at pue.com.au
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not all data centres use fire supression gases like FM200 or
>>>>>>>> Inergen, although the Australian DC market seems hooked on these gas
>>>>>>>> solutions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Such systems are actually banned throughout much of Europe where
>>>>>>>> instead they deploy an oxygen reduction system, which operates by filling
>>>>>>>> the room with an inert gas to reduce the oxygen levels in order to stop a
>>>>>>>> fire but still support human life (with no effect on electrical equipment!).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tony de Francesco
>>>>>>>> Technical Director
>>>>>>>> P.U.E. Pty Ltd
>>>>>>>> On 13/01/2014 4:22 PM, "Jared Hirst" <
>>>>>>>> jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Must be a very good reason, they have 100+ DC's all the same :(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Nathan Brookfield [mailto:Nathan.Brookfield at simtronic.com.au
>>>>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 4:21 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Jared Hirst; Joseph Goldman; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [AusNOG] Global switch Level 4 Hard disk's
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah so it just means when/if a fire starts your equipment is
>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>> SCREWED instead of just some blown drives. I wouldn't say this is
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> advantage at all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kindest Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chief Executive Officer
>>>>>>>>> Simtronic Technologies Pty Ltd
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Local: (02) 4749 4949 | Fax: (02) 4749 4950 | Direct: (02) 4749
>>>>>>>>> 4951
>>>>>>>>> Web: http://www.simtronic.com.au | E-mail:
>>>>>>>>> nathan.brookfield at simtronic.com.au
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf
>>>>>>>>> Of Jared
>>>>>>>>> Hirst
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, 13 January 2014 4:17 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Joseph Goldman; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Global switch Level 4 Hard disk's
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> " but the generality of the fault means it could happen in any
>>>>>>>>> major data
>>>>>>>>> center really."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wouldn't happen in Equinix... They use Dry Pipe and manual fire
>>>>>>>>> supression
>>>>>>>>> to alleviate any 'accidental' systems going off :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would class that as a pretty major Data Centre.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf
>>>>>>>>> Of Joseph
>>>>>>>>> Goldman
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 4:15 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Global switch Level 4 Hard disk's
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not quite so funny when you realise some people may have
>>>>>>>>> hours - or
>>>>>>>>> days - worth of headache's ahead of them restoring back to
>>>>>>>>> production.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is an odd circumstance, and one that I would not have thought of
>>>>>>>>> personally in risk mitigation (beyond accounting for fire anyway).
>>>>>>>>> Are
>>>>>>>>> there drives rated against this kind of 'shock'? Obviously one
>>>>>>>>> should have
>>>>>>>>> Disaster Recovery in place, as the gas suppression going off may
>>>>>>>>> indicate
>>>>>>>>> your servers being doused in fire and unusable anyway, but when
>>>>>>>>> one can
>>>>>>>>> avoid DR one would, and I'd rather not break on a false positive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Luckily I don't use Global Switch, but the generality of the fault
>>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>>> it could happen in any major data center really.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13/01/14 16:08, Tim March wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > Lol. Awesome.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > So, does the incident report look something like;
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > 12:01 "CCTV records HVAC maintenance punter smoking cigarette"
>>>>>>>>> > 12:03 "Suppression system dumps
>>>>>>>>> 987165128973465891723412352643345^2
>>>>>>>>> > liters of gas in to machine room in ~ 0.000000001675 seconds"
>>>>>>>>> > 12:03 "Sonic boom recorded at BOM monitoring station 50km from
>>>>>>>>> facility"
>>>>>>>>> > 12:04 *picture of engineer crying / HDD parts strewn all over
>>>>>>>>> floor*
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > T.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > On 13/01/14 3:22 PM, Pinkerton, Eric (AU Sydney) wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> It's not unheard of, it's to do with the noise created when the
>>>>>>>>> fire
>>>>>>>>> suppression system deploys...
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> http://www.bvfa.de/pdf-download/en-3/
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.buildingtechnologies.siemens.com/bt/global/en/firesafety/e
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> xtinguishing/about-sinorix/latest-technical-findings/Documents/White_
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> Paper_Potential%20damage%20to%20hard%20disk%20drives%20during%20disch
>>>>>>>>> >> arges_en_September2012.pdf
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> There is even a market for nozzles on fire suppression systems
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> lowers the sound in order to prevent this happening..
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> See the WWW.FIKE.COM PROINERT(r) HUSH NOZZLES
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> >> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>> >> Matt Perkins
>>>>>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, 13 January 2014 2:26 PM
>>>>>>>>> >> To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>>>>>> >> Subject: [AusNOG] Global switch Level 4 Hard disk's
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>> >> I have quite a few people today with hard drives fail in
>>>>>>>>> suites on
>>>>>>>>> level 4 at global switch. GS tell us the Gas was dropped in
>>>>>>>>> response to
>>>>>>>>> some smoke from some plant. Not sure how inergen would effect hard
>>>>>>>>> drives
>>>>>>>>> but there are many people wondering around on level 4 looking like
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> dog just died.
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> Anybody have any more info.
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> Matt
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>>> >> /* Matt Perkins
>>>>>>>>> >> Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
>>>>>>>>> >> Office 1300 133 299 matt at spectrum.com.au
>>>>>>>>> >> Fax 1300 133 255 Level 6, 350 George Street
>>>>>>>>> Sydney
>>>>>>>>> 2000
>>>>>>>>> >> SIP 1300137379 at sip.spectrum.com.au
>>>>>>>>> >> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at
>>>>>>>>> http://pgp.mit.edu */
>>>>>>>>> >>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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