[AusNOG] ADSL2+ line sync data

[Joshua D'Alton]

Could be 60% cheaper, but wouldn't be. Given they'd be using a
quota/allowance for the service, selling 40/40 vs 100/40 would only impact
the amount of burstability and therefore the possibility of the ISPs
transit being saturated, but not by much.

I'm not assuming residential users only download, just that the majority is
download, and that were it to come to a decision of 50/20 vs 40/40
(symetrical from a provider doing said shaping), 50/20 will win just about
every time.

I think you're missing that I'm not disputing that symmetry isn't
beneficial, or that in practice it won't be for some people, because it is
and it will, but that most of the time they *won't* benefit, and indeed
most of the time they'd actually be experiencing detriment as a result of
having a slow symetrical service.


On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Mark ZZZ Smith
<markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>wrote:

>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joseph Goldman <joe at apcs.com.au>
> > To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Sunday, 15 September 2013 2:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] ADSL2+ line sync data
> >
> > For most RSP's who buy transit at a 1:1 ratio, unless they happen to
> > offset a lot of bandwidth with content hosting, then you tend to have a
> > lot of spare upload spare anyway. I wouldn't see the problem in
> > symmetric uploads being sold. Obviously each RSP can have T&C's to state
> >
> > abuse and what can/can't be hosted at home (i.e. a big shared hosting
> > company can't be hosted off your 50/50 NBN Tail)
> >
>
> Assuming the existing NBN model/services, an RSP/ISP could buy 100/40 or
> 50/20 services from NBNco, but then on the BNG/BRAS, shape (not police) the
> downstream service bandwidth to be equal to the upstream bandwidth, so that
> their service bandwidths were 40/40 or 20/20. They'd then need less CVC and
> Internet transit capacity, and therefore should be able to offer these
> services significantly cheaper that their competitors 100/40 or 50/20
> services (simplistically, the 40/40 service could be 60% cheaper than their
> competitors 100/40 service).
>
> >
> > On 15/09/13 13:56, Mark ZZZ Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  ----- Original Message -----
> >>>  From: grenville armitage <garmitage at swin.edu.au>
> >>>  To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> >>>  Cc:
> >>>  Sent: Saturday, 14 September 2013 11:22 AM
> >>>  Subject: Re: [AusNOG] ADSL2+ line sync data
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  On 09/14/2013 10:15, Mark ZZZ Smith wrote:
> >>>       [..]
> >>>>    It's the ratio of downstream to update bandwidth that
> > matters, and
> >>>>    the likelihood of congestion in the upstream direction, not so
> > much
> >>>>    the bandwidth involved. The greater the ratio of downstream to
> >>>>    upstream bandwidth, the more likely the problem is going to
> > occur.
> >>>  +1
> >>>
> >>>  (Seriously, Mark is right about http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3449.
> > Still
> >>>  relevant in our brave new asymmetric high speed world.)
> >>>
> >>
> >>  Where I most think it matters is that the service speeds people buy
> sets,
> > quite reasonably, their expectations of what they'll be able to get out
> of
> > their service.
> >>
> >>  So if a customer buys a 25/5 service for example, they'd expect that
> > they'd be able to upload at 5Mbps while also downloading at 25Mbps. They
> > probably won't be able to due to bandwidth asymmetry, which means that
> the
> > ISP/RSP may be violating trade practices laws for false advertising. Or
> in the
> > least, the ISP/RSP have to deal with customer complaints.
> >>
> >>  OTOH, if the ISP/RSP provided 25/25, then it is possible to both
> upload and
> > download using TCP at full rates in both directions.
> >>
> >>  In the brave new NBN world, where people have data centers in their
> > basement, are uploading X-rays from their iPhone 9, and streaming 4K
> security
> > camera video of their cat to the Internet, I think the consequences of
> this
> > asymmetry are going to become are more visible.
> >>
> >>
> >>  Regards,
> >>
> >>  Mark.
> >>
> >>>  cheers,
> >>>  gja
> >>>  _______________________________________________
> >>>  AusNOG mailing list
> >>>  AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >>>  http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> >>>
> >>  _______________________________________________
> >>  AusNOG mailing list
> >>  AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >>  http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AusNOG mailing list
> > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> >
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/20130915/0dac9cf8/attachment.html>