[AusNOG] *STOP THREAD* Re: Trouble with an ex-Customer

[Skeeve Stevens]

I understand the request Gavin, but fyi, until I am arrested, it is not
sub-judice and can be openly discussed.

Anyway, the responses have been helpful.  I am not going to let this
dickhead beat me. Hopefully I will be the last person he screws over.

Thank you for the dozen private emails with very useful advice on how to
deal with them.... some of those suggestions will be very helpful.

Anymore helpful advice, please send off-list as not to upset the mods.


...Skeeve

*Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com

Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve

facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ;  <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>
linkedin.com/in/skeeve

twitter.com/networkceoau ; blog: www.network-ceo.net


The Experts Who The Experts Call
Juniper - Cisco - Cloud


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Gavin Tweedie <gav at narx.net> wrote:

> [*STOP THREAD* is a request by the list moderators for this thread to end
> immediately. Full details announced @ http://lists.ausnog.net/**
> pipermail/ausnog/2013-April/**018219.html<http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2013-April/018219.html>
> ]
>
> This thread is not on topic and furthermore as police are involved this is
> not the appropriate forum for this discussion.
>
> Gavin
> (on behalf of the AusNOG Board)
>
> On 7/05/2013 11:20 AM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:
>
>> So,
>>
>> This is a new one for me.... and I'd like to know what the community
>> thinks about this situation.
>>
>> Background first...
>>
>> We have an ex-client, a micro ISP who has been very hard to deal with
>> over the time we've been involved with them.
>>
>> Basically, They've been a customer for over a year, but only on a
>> minimal basis.  We offered them a higher level of service - even offered
>> to let them try it out for a couple of weeks for free before signing up
>> to the new level.  They seemed happy, and at the agreed upon date we
>> asked them to sign the agreement and can we issue the invoice.  They
>> agreed to the issuing of the invoice and then we sent the paperwork to
>> them a little later.
>>
>> Life goes on for a couple of weeks, and we're getting no response to
>> questions about the agreement or to overdue notices - while still
>> delivering them the service.  They request a meeting, and we agree...
>> The customer has some new staff who were quite arrogant, abusive, and
>> question everything we've ever done - even though they have no idea
>> about this industry or how it works.
>>
>> We don't appreciate being abused, so we say we'd rather not do business
>> with them anymore and suspend their support services with us the next
>> day due to the non-payment of their account.  All good and normal.
>>
>>
>> So a few days later they come at us with legal letters claiming we've
>> locked them out of some devices - which we haven't - we ceased doing any
>> work for them immediately.  We explained that we would help them with
>> whatever they needed - if all they did was pay their overdue invoices.
>>   They could do anything they needed themselves, but they are just
>> clueless.
>>
>> Now, this has been dragging on for a few weeks with letters between
>> lawyers, with them claiming all sort of bizarre things.  My stance is
>> that 'without paying their invoice, we're not doing any work for them at
>> all... no handover, no anything'.  I am not in the habit of being
>> bullied into doing work for people - nasty letters or not.  They also
>> threatened they'd gone to the NSW Police Cyber Crime unit... who I
>> called, and they just basically shrugged their shoulders and said they'd
>> received nothing yet but will let me know if they do.
>>
>> Today we informed them that we will be deleting all information that we
>> hold of theirs in a few days (all documentation, etc).  I don't really
>> want to put us at any further risk by having access to their information
>> - whether it is still current or not.  We're completely within our
>> rights as we have no legal requirements to keep anything for them.
>>
>> So, an hour or so ago I got a call from my lawyer.  He was contacted by
>> a detective at the Kings Cross police station.  Apparently they
>> ex-customer has gone to the cops and made some claims and a detective
>> seemed to think that their claim may be valid under Section 308E of the
>> NSW Crimes Act
>> <http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/**legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/**
>> s308e.html<http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s308e.html>
>> >
>>
>> The reason I am posting here is to draw on the communities experience of
>> these kinds of things.  I've not heard of the NSW Police getting
>> involved in these things, especially at the local station level... but
>> it seems they are.  I think that they are just using the Police to
>> attempt to intimidate me into doing work for him... but I won't tolerate
>> that.  I am more than happy to let them arrest me and let the DPP figure
>> out how to prove their case against me.
>>
>> Firstly, my lawyer agrees that they can't compel us to do work for them
>> without paying.  I also believe that under the Act above, that we
>> haven't "impaired" (by the Act's definition) anything by not giving them
>> any information or knowledge we have.  The lawyers agree.
>>
>> My view here is that they are free to go to any consultants anywhere...
>> hire who they like, but I am not going to be pressured into doing work
>> for them without them a) paying any unpaid invoices, or b) paying for
>> any new work they want, such as handover, etc.
>>
>> This is a frustrating situation as over the time we've been involved
>> with this customer he has been abusive and used very violent language in
>> his dramatic outbursts about completely bizarre things (like us
>> expecting him to read his email).
>>
>> I am sure some will say I shouldn't be discussing this here, but this
>> bullshit of going to the cops because I won't do work for him without
>> him paying his bills, is a new depth of stupidness I didn't think even
>> they would go to.
>>
>> So I am wondering if anyone else here has had these sort of intimidation
>> tactics used against them in this sort of context.
>>
>> If you have advice, but want to send it off-list, feel free.
>>
>>
>> ...Skeeve
>>
>> *Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
>> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com <mailto:skeeve@**eintellegonetworks.com<skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com>>
>> ;
>> www.eintellegonetworks.com <http://www.**eintellegonetworks.com/<http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/>
>> >
>>
>> Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
>>
>> facebook.com/**eintellegonetworks<http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks>
>> <http://facebook.com/**eintellegonetworks<http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks>>
>> ;
>> <http://twitter.com/**networkceoau <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>>
>> linkedin.com/in/**skeeve <http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve>
>> <http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve**>
>>
>> twitter.com/networkceoau <http://twitter.com/**networkceoau<http://twitter.com/networkceoau>>
>> ; blog:
>> www.network-ceo.net <http://www.network-ceo.net/>
>>
>>
>> The Experts Who The Experts Call
>>
>> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud
>>
>>
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