<div dir="ltr">I understand the request Gavin, but fyi, until I am arrested, it is not sub-judice and can be openly discussed.<div><br></div><div>Anyway, the responses have been helpful. I am not going to let this dickhead beat me. Hopefully I will be the last person he screws over.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thank you for the dozen private emails with very useful advice on how to deal with them.... some of those suggestions will be very helpful.</div><div><br></div><div>Anymore helpful advice, please send off-list as not to upset the mods.</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div><br>...Skeeve</div><div><br></div><div><div><b style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">Skeeve Stevens - </b><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri">eintellego Networks Pty Ltd</span></div>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Gavin Tweedie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gav@narx.net" target="_blank">gav@narx.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
[*STOP THREAD* is a request by the list moderators for this thread to end immediately. Full details announced @ <a href="http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/2013-April/018219.html" target="_blank">http://lists.ausnog.net/<u></u>pipermail/ausnog/2013-April/<u></u>018219.html</a>]<br>
<br>
This thread is not on topic and furthermore as police are involved this is not the appropriate forum for this discussion.<br>
<br>
Gavin<br>
(on behalf of the AusNOG Board)<br>
<br>
On 7/05/2013 11:20 AM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
So,<br>
<br>
This is a new one for me.... and I'd like to know what the community<br>
thinks about this situation.<br>
<br>
Background first...<br>
<br>
We have an ex-client, a micro ISP who has been very hard to deal with<br>
over the time we've been involved with them.<br>
<br>
Basically, They've been a customer for over a year, but only on a<br>
minimal basis. We offered them a higher level of service - even offered<br>
to let them try it out for a couple of weeks for free before signing up<br>
to the new level. They seemed happy, and at the agreed upon date we<br>
asked them to sign the agreement and can we issue the invoice. They<br>
agreed to the issuing of the invoice and then we sent the paperwork to<br>
them a little later.<br>
<br>
Life goes on for a couple of weeks, and we're getting no response to<br>
questions about the agreement or to overdue notices - while still<br>
delivering them the service. They request a meeting, and we agree...<br>
The customer has some new staff who were quite arrogant, abusive, and<br>
question everything we've ever done - even though they have no idea<br>
about this industry or how it works.<br>
<br>
We don't appreciate being abused, so we say we'd rather not do business<br>
with them anymore and suspend their support services with us the next<br>
day due to the non-payment of their account. All good and normal.<br>
<br>
<br>
So a few days later they come at us with legal letters claiming we've<br>
locked them out of some devices - which we haven't - we ceased doing any<br>
work for them immediately. We explained that we would help them with<br>
whatever they needed - if all they did was pay their overdue invoices.<br>
They could do anything they needed themselves, but they are just clueless.<br>
<br>
Now, this has been dragging on for a few weeks with letters between<br>
lawyers, with them claiming all sort of bizarre things. My stance is<br>
that 'without paying their invoice, we're not doing any work for them at<br>
all... no handover, no anything'. I am not in the habit of being<br>
bullied into doing work for people - nasty letters or not. They also<br>
threatened they'd gone to the NSW Police Cyber Crime unit... who I<br>
called, and they just basically shrugged their shoulders and said they'd<br>
received nothing yet but will let me know if they do.<br>
<br>
Today we informed them that we will be deleting all information that we<br>
hold of theirs in a few days (all documentation, etc). I don't really<br>
want to put us at any further risk by having access to their information<br>
- whether it is still current or not. We're completely within our<br>
rights as we have no legal requirements to keep anything for them.<br>
<br>
So, an hour or so ago I got a call from my lawyer. He was contacted by<br>
a detective at the Kings Cross police station. Apparently they<br>
ex-customer has gone to the cops and made some claims and a detective<br>
seemed to think that their claim may be valid under Section 308E of the<br>
NSW Crimes Act<br>
<<a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s308e.html" target="_blank">http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/<u></u>legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/<u></u>s308e.html</a>><br>
<br>
The reason I am posting here is to draw on the communities experience of<br>
these kinds of things. I've not heard of the NSW Police getting<br>
involved in these things, especially at the local station level... but<br>
it seems they are. I think that they are just using the Police to<br>
attempt to intimidate me into doing work for him... but I won't tolerate<br>
that. I am more than happy to let them arrest me and let the DPP figure<br>
out how to prove their case against me.<br>
<br>
Firstly, my lawyer agrees that they can't compel us to do work for them<br>
without paying. I also believe that under the Act above, that we<br>
haven't "impaired" (by the Act's definition) anything by not giving them<br>
any information or knowledge we have. The lawyers agree.<br>
<br>
My view here is that they are free to go to any consultants anywhere...<br>
hire who they like, but I am not going to be pressured into doing work<br>
for them without them a) paying any unpaid invoices, or b) paying for<br>
any new work they want, such as handover, etc.<br>
<br>
This is a frustrating situation as over the time we've been involved<br>
with this customer he has been abusive and used very violent language in<br>
his dramatic outbursts about completely bizarre things (like us<br>
expecting him to read his email).<br>
<br>
I am sure some will say I shouldn't be discussing this here, but this<br>
bullshit of going to the cops because I won't do work for him without<br>
him paying his bills, is a new depth of stupidness I didn't think even<br>
they would go to.<br>
<br>
So I am wondering if anyone else here has had these sort of intimidation<br>
tactics used against them in this sort of context.<br>
<br>
If you have advice, but want to send it off-list, feel free.<br>
<br>
<br>
...Skeeve<br>
<br>
*Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd<br>
<a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:skeeve@eintellegonetworks.com" target="_blank">skeeve@<u></u>eintellegonetworks.com</a>> ;<br>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>