[AusNOG] Trouble with an ex-Customer

Tue May 7 20:41:58 EST 2013

10k is peanuts unfortunately. Unless you have that lawyer on a decent
retainer already, it'll cost you at least half that to even fight them let
alone try get the money out of them after this police business is sorted.
In my experience anyway.

I'm +1 to a bad customer list, unfortunately people change companies,
names, etc, so even a serial screwer-overer of which my dad has dealt with
once or twice, they just change names again and go into business with
another bunch of people who can be the front-facing names, and you'll not
know its the same messed up guy(s) in the background :(

On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Skeeve Stevens <
skeeve+ausnog at eintellegonetworks.com> wrote:

> Jeffrey,
>
> The problem about letting it go and walking away, is that basically tells
> them that what they're doing is acceptable...  someone has to stand up to
> them.
> It is worth $10k to us, but I am not going to let them extend that even
> further...
>
> Like RealEstate have a 'bad renters' list, maybe we need to start a bad
> 'customer' list.... because these bastards just go from customer to
> customer screwing small and large businesses.
>
>
> ...Skeeve
>
> *Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
>
> Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
>
> facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ;  <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>
> linkedin.com/in/skeeve
>
> twitter.com/networkceoau ; blog: www.network-ceo.net
>
>
> The Experts Who The Experts Call
> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Jeffrey Sims <jeffy at tehintartubes.net>wrote:
>
>> Skeeve,
>>
>> I ran into a similar small customer who demanded a response where we
>> would come out. But refused to pay invoices for charges and costs incurred.
>> For example this client was near Etihad Stadium in Melbourne. This
>> particular customer often barely rang us, had no on-going maintenance
>> agreement with the company. They only tended to ring us when something went
>> seriously wrong, the crazy thing is, this business, inherited all the
>> equipment (including AD Schema, usernames, printer names) from the previous
>> owner and never wanted to change it.
>>
>> The problem with their location, the most parking for free or on the
>> street for a few dollars was 30 minutes, I myself and another technician
>> who attended to the customer said, we're happy to deal with street parking
>> for small jobs, but most of the work you request needs more than 30 minutes
>> and we'd have to park under the stadium (which was like $30 for 2-3 hours)
>> which would be on-charged in the next invoice (with no mark up).
>>
>> This client had their internet changed over, the provider shipped them a
>> router and just plugged it in. This changed IP address structures and broke
>> everything. We had no documentation as they had changed the other router
>> themselves and all the IP's were different/wrong etc. It took me a good 3
>> hours to untangle everything, get the ISP connection (Which was one of
>> those god horrible in-building ISP in a box style setups) and leave.
>>
>> Well this client rang back claiming nothing worked (Even though
>> everything he had was inherited by him and he told us/shared with us
>> nothing). He then went on the war path refusing to pay invoices etc. We
>> ultimately gave him what we knew, and simply walked away. He then came back
>> to us weeks later wanting our services which we refused citing the
>> outstanding invoices, he paid those invoices but we said we are no longer
>> in a position to service his needs and to find another service provider.
>>
>> Ultimately, if the cost is wearable, (as much as I know taking on a write
>> off is bad regardless of size), simply give him his data and walk away.
>> Clients who move straight into litigious mode clearly aren't interested and
>> it's just not worth the effort. Imagine how much time and money you've
>> wasted dealing with your lawyer, the police, phone calls, stress etc. It is
>> probably fast catching the debt. I'd give him his details and outsource the
>> debt to a collection agency and let it that.
>>
>> It all sounds too much to be honest.
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Skeeve Stevens <
>> skeeve+ausnog at eintellegonetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So,
>>>
>>> This is a new one for me.... and I'd like to know what the community
>>> thinks about this situation.
>>>
>>> Background first...
>>>
>>> We have an ex-client, a micro ISP who has been very hard to deal with
>>> over the time we've been involved with them.
>>>
>>> Basically, They've been a customer for over a year, but only on a
>>> minimal basis.  We offered them a higher level of service - even offered to
>>> let them try it out for a couple of weeks for free before signing up to the
>>> new level.  They seemed happy, and at the agreed upon date we asked them to
>>> sign the agreement and can we issue the invoice.  They agreed to the
>>> issuing of the invoice and then we sent the paperwork to them a little
>>> later.
>>>
>>> Life goes on for a couple of weeks, and we're getting no response to
>>> questions about the agreement or to overdue notices - while still
>>> delivering them the service.  They request a meeting, and we agree... The
>>> customer has some new staff who were quite arrogant, abusive, and question
>>> everything we've ever done - even though they have no idea about this
>>> industry or how it works.
>>>
>>> We don't appreciate being abused, so we say we'd rather not do business
>>> with them anymore and suspend their support services with us the next day
>>> due to the non-payment of their account.  All good and normal.
>>>
>>>
>>> So a few days later they come at us with legal letters claiming we've
>>> locked them out of some devices - which we haven't - we ceased doing any
>>> work for them immediately.  We explained that we would help them with
>>> whatever they needed - if all they did was pay their overdue invoices.
>>>  They could do anything they needed themselves, but they are just clueless.
>>>
>>> Now, this has been dragging on for a few weeks with letters between
>>> lawyers, with them claiming all sort of bizarre things.  My stance is that
>>> 'without paying their invoice, we're not doing any work for them at all...
>>> no handover, no anything'.  I am not in the habit of being bullied into
>>> doing work for people - nasty letters or not.  They also threatened they'd
>>> gone to the NSW Police Cyber Crime unit... who I called, and they just
>>> basically shrugged their shoulders and said they'd received nothing yet but
>>> will let me know if they do.
>>>
>>> Today we informed them that we will be deleting all information that we
>>> hold of theirs in a few days (all documentation, etc).  I don't really want
>>> to put us at any further risk by having access to their information -
>>> whether it is still current or not.  We're completely within our rights as
>>> we have no legal requirements to keep anything for them.
>>>
>>> So, an hour or so ago I got a call from my lawyer.  He was contacted by
>>> a detective at the Kings Cross police station.  Apparently they ex-customer
>>> has gone to the cops and made some claims and a detective seemed to think
>>> that their claim may be valid under Section 308E of the NSW Crimes Act<http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ca190082/s308e.html>
>>>
>>> The reason I am posting here is to draw on the communities experience of
>>> these kinds of things.  I've not heard of the NSW Police getting involved
>>> in these things, especially at the local station level... but it seems they
>>> are.  I think that they are just using the Police to attempt to intimidate
>>> me into doing work for him... but I won't tolerate that.  I am more than
>>> happy to let them arrest me and let the DPP figure out how to prove their
>>> case against me.
>>>
>>> Firstly, my lawyer agrees that they can't compel us to do work for them
>>> without paying.  I also believe that under the Act above, that we haven't
>>> "impaired" (by the Act's definition) anything by not giving them any
>>> information or knowledge we have.  The lawyers agree.
>>>
>>> My view here is that they are free to go to any consultants anywhere...
>>> hire who they like, but I am not going to be pressured into doing work for
>>> them without them a) paying any unpaid invoices, or b) paying for any new
>>> work they want, such as handover, etc.
>>>
>>> This is a frustrating situation as over the time we've been involved
>>> with this customer he has been abusive and used very violent language in
>>> his dramatic outbursts about completely bizarre things (like us expecting
>>> him to read his email).
>>>
>>> I am sure some will say I shouldn't be discussing this here, but this
>>> bullshit of going to the cops because I won't do work for him without him
>>> paying his bills, is a new depth of stupidness I didn't think even they
>>> would go to.
>>>
>>> So I am wondering if anyone else here has had these sort of intimidation
>>> tactics used against them in this sort of context.
>>>
>>> If you have advice, but want to send it off-list, feel free.
>>>
>>>
>>> ...Skeeve
>>>
>>> *Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
>>> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
>>>
>>> Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
>>>
>>> facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ;  <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>
>>> linkedin.com/in/skeeve
>>>
>>> twitter.com/networkceoau ; blog: www.network-ceo.net
>>>
>>>
>>> The Experts Who The Experts Call
>>> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud
>>>
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>>>
>>
>
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