[AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices

Thu Jul 18 12:24:34 EST 2013

Emergency services.  Battery backup + POTS port in the NTD means you get 
dialtone in a blackout.

PSTN port also means easier transition (alarm systems, foxtel, etc).

On 18/07/2013 11:48 AM, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker wrote:
> So I have listened to it.
>
> Interesting.
> My initial question (and show how much I have been following it), but PSTN and battery why ?
>
> Also the deal with Telstra do they have some pricing deal with NBN co... wonder if they have a fixed cost / port locked in there somewhere.
>
> ....
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Beeson, Ayden [mailto:ABeeson at csu.edu.au]
>> Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013 12:09 PM
>> To: Joseph Goldman; Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
>> Cc: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>> Subject: RE: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day
>> yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices
>>
>> While I get the viewpoint of making it cheaper, I definitely agree that
>> receiving a standard Ethernet copper interface is easier for most people,
>> maybe the NTD could be made optional if requested (as could the power
>> supply)
>>
>> However given that we are already looking at the possibility of using one of
>> the 4 ports for Government services, I can already see 2 or even 3 of my
>> ports being used when it arrives here and most "everyday" users that have
>> just one DSL connection now will find themselves with at least 2 ports being
>> used on the NBN in the short term.
>>
>> The multiple ports are a good idea, possibly the additional cost is too much
>> (at least initially) and could be passed onto the consumer to a degree with an
>> "upgrade" cost or requiring your purchase of a GPON capable router instead,
>> both have positives and negatives and my leaning at the moment is that the
>> 4 ports is (from my viewpoint) worth the cost.....
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ayden Beeson
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
>> Joseph Goldman
>> Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013 11:57 AM
>> To: Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
>> Cc: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day
>> yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices
>>
>> I agree with your perception, hence why the VDSL vs Fiber roll-out, and the 2
>> costs involved in each (claiming VDSL as a cheaper option, but slower speeds
>> because that is 'enough') I pick the Fiber roll-out.
>>
>> The argument is purely on the points made in the presentation on the fact of
>> information (That I personally didn't know previously) that NBNCo had a large
>> outlay in having these boxes specifically designed for them, which also locks
>> them into this hardware vendor.
>>
>> I agree on the premise that multi ports for multi-use is great, but the
>> presentation is highly geared towards doing it cheaper up front. The fiber in
>> the ground is what gives us the future commodity of enabling more and
>> more speeds as we need, the medium would no longer be the limiting factor,
>> and it would be much cheaper to do the single point roll-out up-front and a
>> more gradual 'as-needed' rollout on multi-port devices over the next few
>> decades.
>>
>> Again, all just my opinion :).
>>
>> On 18/07/13 11:44, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker wrote:
>>> I haven't watched the video, but would like to comment on this reply.
>>>
>>> My perception has been in this debate. Is that there is a side that
>>> says why do we need much more than what we have. People should be
>>> happy with 20Mb/s what more can you do ...
>>>
>>> I think with the amount of money being spent, it should be a case of
>>> doing It right, still trying to get the best bang per buck, but maybe
>>> lowering the bar for this project.
>>>
>>>   From my understanding once laid fibre's life time is long enough for
>>> new reasons to use it to emerge
>>>
>>> This to me is like building railway lines around Aus or US,
>>> industrialisation Building highways... etc
>>>
>>> But who knows... what is going to turn up around the corner !
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
>>>> Joseph Goldman
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013 11:34 AM
>>>> To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day
>>>> yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices
>>>>
>>>> I thought the same, as someone who currently has 2 NBN RSP's on my
>>>> NTD it is a good fit and quite easy. My preferred routers are also
>>>> only ethernet so I'd be locked in to a more limited range of routers
>>>> that can terminate GPON, or have a deal like I had to do when DSL was
>>>> my only connection, which is a small single port device to interface
>>>> with the network (e.g. ADSL Modem) that bridges through to my
>>>> ethernet router to do the real grunt (NAT/Firewall etc).
>>>>
>>>> But on the flip side it is very common for a house to only have a
>>>> single copper line in, and those rare people who require multiple
>>>> connections pay for the benefit of doing so through adding a second
>>>> line, which can run up to $299 at Telstra build-out cost I believe.
>>>> So given that most dwellings would only need a single provider at any
>>>> one time, I would say those who are in the specific need for multiple
>>>> connections would have to pay for a second 'line' like any other customer
>> in current networks.
>>>> The cost benefit Simon talks about for the majority of households
>>>> would far outweigh the extra work required for the small minority
>>>> that would request such a setup.
>>>>
>>>> /2c
>>>>
>>>> On 18/07/13 11:28, Andrew Jones wrote:
>>>>> Good presentation, and while my first reaction was to agree with
>>>>> Simon, the issue I see with this is that unless each dwelling is
>>>>> able to have multiple strands of fibre delivered, the first RSP to
>>>>> sell a service has a monopoly on the residence's connections. With
>>>>> the current NBN design, a second (or third) RSP can use another of
>>>>> the ports. On the current system with services delivered primarily
>>>>> over phone lines, we can have second provider on a separate line. I
>>>>> think that only offering a single GPON handoff to each premises
>>>>> could reduce competition and increase provider lock-in.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18.07.2013 11:15, Greg McLennan wrote:
>>>>>> +1 Watch the 20 video.
>>>>>>    -------
>>>>>>    On 18/07/2013 11:12 AM, Michael Andreas Schipp wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recommend you spend the 20 min to listen - good stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FROM: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] ON
>> BEHALF
>>>> OF
>>>>>>> George Fong
>>>>>>> SENT: Thursday, 18 July 2013 10:46 AM
>>>>>>> TO: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>>>> SUBJECT: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day
>>>>>>> yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you haven't already seen it, here's a link to Simon's thought
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> provoking and challenging presentation at Comms Day. Is NBNCo
>>>>>>> doing it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> too hard, too complex and too expensive?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-
>> budget/
>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> g.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Doing Dry July again! https://au.dryjuly.com/profile/georgefong
>>>>>>> [3]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just remember, wherever you go .... there you are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
>>>>>>> MAILSCANNER AT LATERAL PLAINS [4], and is believed to be clean.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> AusNOG mailing list
>>>>>>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog [2]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Links:
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/
>>>>>> [2] http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>>>> [3] https://au.dryjuly.com/profile/georgefong
>>>>>> [4] http://www.lateralplains.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> AusNOG mailing list
>>>>>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> AusNOG mailing list
>>>>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> AusNOG mailing list
>>>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>> Charles Sturt University
>>
>> | ALBURY-WODONGA | BATHURST | CANBERRA | DUBBO | GOULBURN |
>> MELBOURNE |
>> | ONTARIO | ORANGE | PORT MACQUARIE | SYDNEY | WAGGA WAGGA |
>>
>> LEGAL NOTICE
>> This email (and any attachment) is confidential and is intended for the use of
>> the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you
>> must not copy, distribute, take any action in reliance on it or disclose it to
>> anyone. Any confidentiality is not waived or lost by reason of mistaken
>> delivery. Email should be checked for viruses and defects before opening.
>> Charles Sturt University (CSU) does not accept liability for viruses or any
>> consequence which arise as a result of this email transmission. Email
>> communications with CSU may be subject to automated email filtering, which
>> could result in the delay or deletion of a legitimate email before it is read at
>> CSU. The views expressed in this email are not necessarily those of CSU.
>>
>> Charles Sturt University in Australia  http://www.csu.edu.au  The Grange
>> Chancellery, Panorama Avenue, Bathurst NSW Australia 2795  (ABN: 83 878
>> 708 551; CRICOS Provider Numbers: 00005F (NSW), 01947G (VIC), 02960B
>> (ACT)). TEQSA Provider Number: PV12018
>>
>> Charles Sturt University in Ontario  http://www.charlessturt.ca 860
>> Harrington Court, Burlington Ontario Canada L7N 3N4  Registration:
>> www.peqab.ca
>>
>> Consider the environment before printing this email.
>>
>> Disclaimer added by CodeTwo Exchange Rules 2007
>> http://www.codetwo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>

-- 
Brad Gould, Network Engineer
Internode
PO Box 284, Rundle Mall 5000
Level 5, 150 Grenfell Street, Adelaide 5000
P: 08 8228 2999  F: 08 8235 6999
bradley at internode.com.au; http://www.internode.on.net/