[AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices

Thu Jul 18 12:18:46 EST 2013

So I have listened to it.

Interesting.  
My initial question (and show how much I have been following it), but PSTN and battery why ?

Also the deal with Telstra do they have some pricing deal with NBN co... wonder if they have a fixed cost / port locked in there somewhere.

....

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beeson, Ayden [mailto:ABeeson at csu.edu.au]
> Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013 12:09 PM
> To: Joseph Goldman; Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
> Cc: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> Subject: RE: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day
> yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices
> 
> While I get the viewpoint of making it cheaper, I definitely agree that
> receiving a standard Ethernet copper interface is easier for most people,
> maybe the NTD could be made optional if requested (as could the power
> supply)
> 
> However given that we are already looking at the possibility of using one of
> the 4 ports for Government services, I can already see 2 or even 3 of my
> ports being used when it arrives here and most "everyday" users that have
> just one DSL connection now will find themselves with at least 2 ports being
> used on the NBN in the short term.
> 
> The multiple ports are a good idea, possibly the additional cost is too much
> (at least initially) and could be passed onto the consumer to a degree with an
> "upgrade" cost or requiring your purchase of a GPON capable router instead,
> both have positives and negatives and my leaning at the moment is that the
> 4 ports is (from my viewpoint) worth the cost.....
> 
> Thanks,
> Ayden Beeson
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
> Joseph Goldman
> Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013 11:57 AM
> To: Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
> Cc: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day
> yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices
> 
> I agree with your perception, hence why the VDSL vs Fiber roll-out, and the 2
> costs involved in each (claiming VDSL as a cheaper option, but slower speeds
> because that is 'enough') I pick the Fiber roll-out.
> 
> The argument is purely on the points made in the presentation on the fact of
> information (That I personally didn't know previously) that NBNCo had a large
> outlay in having these boxes specifically designed for them, which also locks
> them into this hardware vendor.
> 
> I agree on the premise that multi ports for multi-use is great, but the
> presentation is highly geared towards doing it cheaper up front. The fiber in
> the ground is what gives us the future commodity of enabling more and
> more speeds as we need, the medium would no longer be the limiting factor,
> and it would be much cheaper to do the single point roll-out up-front and a
> more gradual 'as-needed' rollout on multi-port devices over the next few
> decades.
> 
> Again, all just my opinion :).
> 
> On 18/07/13 11:44, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker wrote:
> > I haven't watched the video, but would like to comment on this reply.
> >
> > My perception has been in this debate. Is that there is a side that
> > says why do we need much more than what we have. People should be
> > happy with 20Mb/s what more can you do ...
> >
> > I think with the amount of money being spent, it should be a case of
> > doing It right, still trying to get the best bang per buck, but maybe
> > lowering the bar for this project.
> >
> >  From my understanding once laid fibre's life time is long enough for
> > new reasons to use it to emerge
> >
> > This to me is like building railway lines around Aus or US,
> > industrialisation Building highways... etc
> >
> > But who knows... what is going to turn up around the corner !
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
> >> Joseph Goldman
> >> Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013 11:34 AM
> >> To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> >> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day
> >> yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices
> >>
> >> I thought the same, as someone who currently has 2 NBN RSP's on my
> >> NTD it is a good fit and quite easy. My preferred routers are also
> >> only ethernet so I'd be locked in to a more limited range of routers
> >> that can terminate GPON, or have a deal like I had to do when DSL was
> >> my only connection, which is a small single port device to interface
> >> with the network (e.g. ADSL Modem) that bridges through to my
> >> ethernet router to do the real grunt (NAT/Firewall etc).
> >>
> >> But on the flip side it is very common for a house to only have a
> >> single copper line in, and those rare people who require multiple
> >> connections pay for the benefit of doing so through adding a second
> >> line, which can run up to $299 at Telstra build-out cost I believe.
> >> So given that most dwellings would only need a single provider at any
> >> one time, I would say those who are in the specific need for multiple
> >> connections would have to pay for a second 'line' like any other customer
> in current networks.
> >> The cost benefit Simon talks about for the majority of households
> >> would far outweigh the extra work required for the small minority
> >> that would request such a setup.
> >>
> >> /2c
> >>
> >> On 18/07/13 11:28, Andrew Jones wrote:
> >>> Good presentation, and while my first reaction was to agree with
> >>> Simon, the issue I see with this is that unless each dwelling is
> >>> able to have multiple strands of fibre delivered, the first RSP to
> >>> sell a service has a monopoly on the residence's connections. With
> >>> the current NBN design, a second (or third) RSP can use another of
> >>> the ports. On the current system with services delivered primarily
> >>> over phone lines, we can have second provider on a separate line. I
> >>> think that only offering a single GPON handoff to each premises
> >>> could reduce competition and increase provider lock-in.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 18.07.2013 11:15, Greg McLennan wrote:
> >>>> +1 Watch the 20 video.
> >>>>   -------
> >>>>   On 18/07/2013 11:12 AM, Michael Andreas Schipp wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Recommend you spend the 20 min to listen - good stuff.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> FROM: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] ON
> BEHALF
> >> OF
> >>>>> George Fong
> >>>>> SENT: Thursday, 18 July 2013 10:46 AM
> >>>>> TO: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> >>>>> SUBJECT: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day
> >>>>> yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi All,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you haven't already seen it, here's a link to Simon's thought
> >>>>>
> >>>>> provoking and challenging presentation at Comms Day. Is NBNCo
> >>>>> doing it
> >>>>>
> >>>>> too hard, too complex and too expensive?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-
> budget/
> >> [1]
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>
> >>>>> g.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Doing Dry July again! https://au.dryjuly.com/profile/georgefong
> >>>>> [3]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just remember, wherever you go .... there you are.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
> >>>>> MAILSCANNER AT LATERAL PLAINS [4], and is believed to be clean.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> AusNOG mailing list
> >>>>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> >>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog [2]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Links:
> >>>> ------
> >>>> [1]
> >>>> http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/
> >>>> [2] http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> >>>> [3] https://au.dryjuly.com/profile/georgefong
> >>>> [4] http://www.lateralplains.com/
> >>>>
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