[AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices

Thu Jul 18 12:08:55 EST 2013

While I get the viewpoint of making it cheaper, I definitely agree that receiving a standard Ethernet copper interface is easier for most people, maybe the NTD could be made optional if requested (as could the power supply)

However given that we are already looking at the possibility of using one of the 4 ports for Government services, I can already see 2 or even 3 of my ports being used when it arrives here and most "everyday" users that have just one DSL connection now will find themselves with at least 2 ports being used on the NBN in the short term.

The multiple ports are a good idea, possibly the additional cost is too much (at least initially) and could be passed onto the consumer to a degree with an "upgrade" cost or requiring your purchase of a GPON capable router instead, both have positives and negatives and my leaning at the moment is that the 4 ports is (from my viewpoint) worth the cost.....

Thanks,
Ayden Beeson

-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Joseph Goldman
Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013 11:57 AM
To: Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
Cc: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices

I agree with your perception, hence why the VDSL vs Fiber roll-out, and the 2 costs involved in each (claiming VDSL as a cheaper option, but slower speeds because that is 'enough') I pick the Fiber roll-out.

The argument is purely on the points made in the presentation on the fact of information (That I personally didn't know previously) that NBNCo had a large outlay in having these boxes specifically designed for them, which also locks them into this hardware vendor.

I agree on the premise that multi ports for multi-use is great, but the presentation is highly geared towards doing it cheaper up front. The fiber in the ground is what gives us the future commodity of enabling more and more speeds as we need, the medium would no longer be the limiting factor, and it would be much cheaper to do the single point roll-out up-front and a more gradual 'as-needed' rollout on multi-port devices over the next few decades.

Again, all just my opinion :).

On 18/07/13 11:44, Alex Samad - Yieldbroker wrote:
> I haven't watched the video, but would like to comment on this reply.
>
> My perception has been in this debate. Is that there is a side that
> says why do we need much more than what we have. People should be
> happy with 20Mb/s what more can you do ...
>
> I think with the amount of money being spent, it should be a case of
> doing It right, still trying to get the best bang per buck, but maybe
> lowering the bar for this project.
>
>  From my understanding once laid fibre's life time is long enough for
> new reasons to use it to emerge
>
> This to me is like building railway lines around Aus or US,
> industrialisation Building highways... etc
>
> But who knows... what is going to turn up around the corner !
>
> Alex
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
>> Joseph Goldman
>> Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2013 11:34 AM
>> To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day
>> yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices
>>
>> I thought the same, as someone who currently has 2 NBN RSP's on my
>> NTD it is a good fit and quite easy. My preferred routers are also
>> only ethernet so I'd be locked in to a more limited range of routers
>> that can terminate GPON, or have a deal like I had to do when DSL was
>> my only connection, which is a small single port device to interface
>> with the network (e.g. ADSL Modem) that bridges through to my
>> ethernet router to do the real grunt (NAT/Firewall etc).
>>
>> But on the flip side it is very common for a house to only have a
>> single copper line in, and those rare people who require multiple
>> connections pay for the benefit of doing so through adding a second
>> line, which can run up to $299 at Telstra build-out cost I believe.
>> So given that most dwellings would only need a single provider at any
>> one time, I would say those who are in the specific need for multiple
>> connections would have to pay for a second 'line' like any other customer in current networks.
>> The cost benefit Simon talks about for the majority of households
>> would far outweigh the extra work required for the small minority
>> that would request such a setup.
>>
>> /2c
>>
>> On 18/07/13 11:28, Andrew Jones wrote:
>>> Good presentation, and while my first reaction was to agree with
>>> Simon, the issue I see with this is that unless each dwelling is
>>> able to have multiple strands of fibre delivered, the first RSP to
>>> sell a service has a monopoly on the residence's connections. With
>>> the current NBN design, a second (or third) RSP can use another of
>>> the ports. On the current system with services delivered primarily
>>> over phone lines, we can have second provider on a separate line. I
>>> think that only offering a single GPON handoff to each premises
>>> could reduce competition and increase provider lock-in.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18.07.2013 11:15, Greg McLennan wrote:
>>>> +1 Watch the 20 video.
>>>>   -------
>>>>   On 18/07/2013 11:12 AM, Michael Andreas Schipp wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Recommend you spend the 20 min to listen - good stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> FROM: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] ON BEHALF
>> OF
>>>>> George Fong
>>>>> SENT: Thursday, 18 July 2013 10:46 AM
>>>>> TO: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>> SUBJECT: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's presentation from Comms Day
>>>>> yesterday - NBN fibre on copper prices
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> If you haven't already seen it, here's a link to Simon's thought
>>>>>
>>>>> provoking and challenging presentation at Comms Day. Is NBNCo
>>>>> doing it
>>>>>
>>>>> too hard, too complex and too expensive?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/
>> [1]
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> g.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Doing Dry July again! https://au.dryjuly.com/profile/georgefong
>>>>> [3]
>>>>>
>>>>> Just remember, wherever you go .... there you are.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
>>>>> MAILSCANNER AT LATERAL PLAINS [4], and is believed to be clean.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> AusNOG mailing list
>>>>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog [2]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Links:
>>>> ------
>>>> [1]
>>>> http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/
>>>> [2] http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>> [3] https://au.dryjuly.com/profile/georgefong
>>>> [4] http://www.lateralplains.com/
>>>>
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