[AusNOG] Q sonicwall and juniper

Mon Jul 8 16:03:09 EST 2013

The only problem with RTBH (remotely triggered black hole) BGP communities is it typically will complete the attack and take the customer off the air assuming you are bring in all the traffic from the same location.

Optus, Vocus, Telstra, Primus, Uecomm, Eftel oh and Micron21 all support RTBH and many other BGP communities

This is where mitigation devices such as the NSFOCUS and Arbor have the ability to clean the traffic assuming you have the capacity to absorb the attack.

Kindest Regards

James Braunegg
P:  1300 769 972  |  M:  0488 997 207 |  D:  (03) 9751 7616
E:   james.braunegg at micron21.com<mailto:james.braunegg at micron21.com>  |  ABN:  12 109 977 666
W:  www.micron21.com/ip-transit<http://www.micron21.com/ip-transit>  T: @micron21

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From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Craig Askings
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:45 PM
To: Jonathan Thorpe
Cc: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Q sonicwall and juniper

I'm not aware of any, but you do have companies like Vocus. Who do accept blackhole bgp communities and have Arbor kit within their own network that will pickup on attacks.

I've personally seen it detect and suppress attacks on my previous employer's transit connection with Vocus in the 5-10 minute range from the start of the attack.

The most effect way of avoiding DDoS attacks in Australia is to not have Game Servers, IRC servers or gambling operations hosted on your network.

Craig.

On 08/07/2013, at 3:40 PM, Jonathan Thorpe <jthorpe at Conexim.com.au<mailto:jthorpe at Conexim.com.au>> wrote:

Probably a good time to ask - who supports FlowSpec advertisements?

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Craig Askings
Sent: Monday, 8 July 2013 3:33 PM
To: Zone Networks - Joel Nath
Cc: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Q sonicwall and juniper

Agreed, if you want to manage DDoS attacks you really want:

1) Juniper MX out front with BGP flowspec enabled on it.
2) Some tool to identify said DDoS and generate the flowspec rule to match it. (Arbor?)
3) Upstream providers who can automatically sink said traffic at their borders.

http://www.slideshare.net/sfouant/an-introduction-to-bgp-flow-spec

On 08/07/2013, at 3:27 PM, "Zone Networks - Joel Nath" <joel at zonenetworks.com.au<mailto:joel at zonenetworks.com.au>> wrote:

Firewall wont help protect you against DDOS, especially anything that is software based

Srx 3400 + might help abit as its ASIC but a decent SYN flood will take it out as well.

Regards
Joel

-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
Sent: Monday, 8 July 2013 3:19 PM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Q sonicwall and juniper

Hi

Thanks to everyone that has given me feedback, definitely seems like juniper is the router of choice.
This is still early days for me... more of a fact finding mission

One of the design choices I am looking at.

It seems like there are units capable of looking after (in 1 HA setup) both  Internet FW and internet FW.

Currently I am using some cisco 2600's for my ext routers ... ie WAN ... BGP and basic ACL's

The original idea was to replicate this, so outside routers, Internet FW and internal FW with similar setup

The main reason for that is that a DDOS or any attack via BGP can only attack our outside routers. Thus reducing our foot print our external FW is exposed to the outside world.

More background, we provide our product via the internet and via private connections (leased lines of sorts, premium service ).

What we are trying to avoid with separate devices is internet issues affecting premium services. And to some extend our internal traffic.

So I have thrown my eye over at the srx 550 and find it (and it seems other models / manufactures)  provide virtual routers/domains  Is this enough to protect a FW device.

So if I replace my external routers and internet FW and internet FW, with a SRX550 am I leaving myself open to the cpu of the device being taken up with BGP process or DDOS from the internet ... etc etc.

Thanks
Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of
Andrew Jones
Sent: Monday, 8 July 2013 2:47 PM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Q sonicwall and juniper

I have quite a few SRX clusters running, and find them very reliable
in general. Most of the issues which were there earlier have been sorted out.
"Commit rollback", which used not to be available in earlier versions
of junos when clustering was enabled now works as well, which is a big
plus in my book.

On 08.07.2013 14:30, Ryan Finnesey wrote:

Lol never worked with clustering.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:52 PM, "Skeeve Stevens"
<skeeve+ausnog at eintellegonetworks.com<mailto:skeeve+ausnog at eintellegonetworks.com>> wrote:

+1.

Juniper clustering was developed, coded, and not tested by Satan
himself.

...Skeeve

SKEEVE STEVENS - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd

skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com<mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com> ; www.eintellegonetworks.com<http://www.eintellegonetworks.com> [3]

Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve

facebook.com/eintellegonetworks<http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks> [4] ; [5]linkedin.com/in/skeeve<http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve> [6]

twitter.com/networkceoau<http://twitter.com/networkceoau> [5] ; blog: www.network-ceo.net<http://www.network-ceo.net> [7]

The Experts Who The Experts Call
Juniper - Cisco - Cloud

On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 11:47 AM, James Braunegg
<james.braunegg at micron21.com<mailto:james.braunegg at micron21.com>> wrote:

I like the Juniper SRX 3400 / SRX 5600 firewalls the nice things
about these is you can run per device redundant routing engines,
both of these support hardware line rate 10gbit ports and are full
ASIC based.

If you don't actually need 10gbit throughput you could look at the
SRX 650 which can support 10gbit ports but all processing is done
in software not in ASIC

Juniper had some issues with clustering the SRX in the early days
but these seem to be all but gone now...

That being said I still avoid clustering where possible and much
prefer two single devices not linked in anyway other than standard
routing protocols.

Juniper also has a fantastic CLI ... one of the best I've ever used.

Do you have a budget in mind ?

Kindest Regards

James Braunegg
P: 1300 769 972 | M: 0488 997 207 | D: (03) 9751 7616

E: james.braunegg at micron21.com<mailto:james.braunegg at micron21.com> | ABN: 12 109 977 666
W: www.micron21.com/ip-transit<http://www.micron21.com/ip-transit> [1] T: @micron21

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-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of
Alex Samad - Yieldbroker
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 10:01 AM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: [AusNOG] Q sonicwall and juniper

Hi

Was wondering what the groups thoughts where on sonicwall and
maybe

in relation to juniper.

Most of my experience has been with Cisco and linux (firewalls)

In particular I am looking at

Exterior FW (facing internet)

Or

Interior FW (not facing Internet)

Like to have a cluster (HA setup)

Like to have min 2 x 10G fibre ports per dev and some 1G ports

Don't need any sort of deep packet inspection

I prefer CLI, my initial googling seems to suggest sonic is not
very cli friendly at all

Again my initial investigation leads me to NSA 5600 (or NSA 6600),
not sure what the comparably Juniper might be.

Thanks

Alex

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