[AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?

[Wolfgang Nagele]

Hi Mark,

The only difference that I can agree to is the distance between major cities. All the rest is the same in every market around the world. In my mind the vast distances between major cities should make the case for peering even stronger. Also as far as distance and availability of IXes goes Australia is not that much different from the US. Most peering in the US is carried out at the West and East coast - same as in Australia.

I did receive a reply off-list that pointed out what I believe may be the real reason for the difference in peering culture. In Australia the Internet did not start with small ISPs all over the place - it started with the Incumbent. That makes for a very different dynamic around market control.

Cheers,
Wolfgang

On 8/4/13 9:40 AM, "Mark ZZZ Smith" <markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au<mailto:markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>> wrote:

I think it could be a symptom of a few differences between Australia and other regions.

Australia has a small number of large cities, spread apart by 100s of Kms. As a consequence, there are only a small number of IXes in each city, and the network effect (the more something is used, the more valuable it becomes), keeps that number of IXes small. If you're going to connect to an interstate IX, you need to be large enough to afford that sort of infrastructure (e.g, be able to afford to pay for a reasonable bandwidth link that goes 100s of Kms), and you're going to go to the most popular IX(es) to gain the best value from peering.

Once you connect to an IX, multilateral peering with a couple of the IX's route servers provides more value than bilaterally peering in most cases, because you avoid the administrative overhead of all those bilateral peering setups.

To be worth doing, bilateral peering would need to either provide a peering with somebody who won't multilateral peer at an IX, or peering that provides more useful value than what the existing multilateral peering provides.

Regards,
Mark.



________________________________
From: Shaun McGuane <shaun at rackcentral.com.au<mailto:shaun at rackcentral.com.au>>
To: Tom Paseka <tom at cloudflare.com<mailto:tom at cloudflare.com>>; Wolfgang Nagele <wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au<mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au>>
Cc: "Ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net>" <Ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net>>
Sent: Sunday, 4 August 2013 3:16 AM
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to chime in here … We are peering with Wolfgang and set it up last week.
We are all for peering .. and if anyone wants to reach out and peer with us we have gear/pop in the following locations.

530 Collins St (MDF / & MDC Level 15 )
525 Collins St (MDF Rialto Towers)
NextDC M1
Primus DC Melbourne
Vocus Doody St Sydney

Regards
Shaun McGuane


From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Tom Paseka
Sent: Sunday, 4 August 2013 3:01 AM
To: Wolfgang Nagele
Cc: Ausnog at ausnog.net<mailto:Ausnog at ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?

Wolfgang,

Australia isn't opposed to peering any more or less so than Europe. Difference is many operators wont set up direct sessions over the fabric, instead relying on peering with the Route Server(s) to exchange routes.

Cheers,
Tom

On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Wolfgang Nagele <wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au<mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au>> wrote:
Hi,

Coming from Europe I have to say that I am still surprised about the reluctance in Australia to peer with each other. Leaving the large players and their various (mainly) political motives aside, why the reluctance among the small providers here?

To put it into perspective, we've just recently rolled out a substantial global Anycast deployment and while we are struggling to get decent numbers of peers at various IXes here we've established many in both Europe and the US.

Anybody can shed some light on this issue for me?

And for those that actually just would like to peer - our details are here: http://as58620.peeringdb.com<http://as58620.peeringdb.com/>

Regards,

--
Wolfgang Nagele
IT Manager
AusRegistry Pty Ltd
Level 8, 10 Queens Road
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, 3004
Phone +61 3 9866 3710
Email: wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au<mailto:wolfgang.nagele at ausregistry.com.au>
Web: www.ausregistry.com.au<http://www.ausregistry.com.au/>


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