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<div>Hi Mark,</div>
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<div>The only difference that I can agree to is the distance between major cities. All the rest is the same in every market around the world. In my mind the vast distances between major cities should make the case for peering even stronger. Also as far as distance
and availability of IXes goes Australia is not that much different from the US. Most peering in the US is carried out at the West and East coast - same as in Australia.</div>
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<div>I did receive a reply off-list that pointed out what I believe may be the real reason for the difference in peering culture. In Australia the Internet did not start with small ISPs all over the place - it started with the Incumbent. That makes for a very
different dynamic around market control.</div>
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<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Wolfgang</div>
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<div>On 8/4/13 9:40 AM, "Mark ZZZ Smith" <<a href="mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au">markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>I think it could be a symptom of a few differences between Australia and other regions.</div>
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'bookman old style', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">
Australia has a small number of large cities, spread apart by 100s of Kms. As a consequence, there are only a small number of IXes in each city, and the network effect (the more something is used, the more valuable it becomes), keeps that number of IXes small. <span style="font-size: 12pt;">If
you're going to connect to an interstate IX, you need to be large enough to afford that sort of infrastructure (e.g, be able to afford to pay for a reasonable bandwidth link that goes 100s of Kms), and you're going to go to the most popular IX(es) to gain
the best value from peering.</span></div>
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'bookman old style', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">
Once you connect to an IX, multilateral peering with a couple of the IX's route servers provides more value than bilaterally peering in most cases, because you avoid the administrative overhead of all those bilateral peering setups. </div>
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To be worth doing, bilateral peering would need to either provide a peering with somebody who won't multilateral peer at an IX, or peering that provides more useful value than what the existing multilateral peering provides.</div>
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Regards,</div>
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Mark.</div>
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<font size="2" face="Arial"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Shaun McGuane <<a href="mailto:shaun@rackcentral.com.au">shaun@rackcentral.com.au</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Tom Paseka <<a href="mailto:tom@cloudflare.com">tom@cloudflare.com</a>>; Wolfgang Nagele <<a href="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au">wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "<a href="mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net">Ausnog@ausnog.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net">Ausnog@ausnog.net</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, 4 August 2013 3:16 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?<br>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Hi Guys,</span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">I just wanted to chime in here … We are peering with Wolfgang and set it up last week.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">We are all for peering .. and if anyone wants to reach out and peer with us we have gear/pop in the following locations.</span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">530 Collins St (MDF / & MDC Level 15 )</span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">525 Collins St (MDF Rialto Towers)</span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">NextDC M1</span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Primus DC Melbourne</span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Vocus Doody St Sydney</span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Regards</span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Shaun McGuane</span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;"> AusNOG [<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Paseka<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 4 August 2013 3:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Wolfgang Nagele<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:Ausnog@ausnog.net">Ausnog@ausnog.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Why is peering in Australia so hard?</span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal">Wolfgang,</div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal">Australia isn't opposed to peering any more or less so than Europe. Difference is many operators wont set up direct sessions over the fabric, instead relying on peering with the Route Server(s) to exchange routes. </div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal">Cheers,</div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal">Tom</div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"> </div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal">On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Wolfgang Nagele <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au">wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">Hi,</span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">Coming from Europe I have to say that I am still surprised about the reluctance in Australia to peer with each other. Leaving the large players and their various (mainly) political motives
aside, why the reluctance among the small providers here?</span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">To put it into perspective, we've just recently rolled out a substantial global Anycast deployment and while we are struggling to get decent numbers of peers at various IXes here we've established
many in both Europe and the US.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">Anybody can shed some light on this issue for me?</span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">And for those that actually just would like to peer - our details are here:
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://as58620.peeringdb.com/">http://as58620.peeringdb.com</a></span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">Regards,</span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">--</span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">Wolfgang Nagele</span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">IT Manager</span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">AusRegistry Pty Ltd</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">Level 8, 10 Queens Road</span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, 3004</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">Phone <a rel="nofollow" href="">
+61 3 9866 3710</a></span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">Email: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au" target="_blank" href="mailto:wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au">
wolfgang.nagele@ausregistry.com.au</a></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">Web: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.ausregistry.com.au/">
www.ausregistry.com.au</a></span></div>
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<div class="yiv3627350957MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;"> </span></div>
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