[AusNOG] Understanding lack of Aus connectivity to melbournefreeuniversity.org.

Sat Apr 13 17:28:52 EST 2013

I think the concerns being raised here are very valid, and whilst the carriers are just doing what the are being told, there needs to be probing at a higher level to see what laws are being applied in these instances. Section 313, and 314 to my eye are extremely broad.

ACMA has stated that they were IN NO WAY involved with this take down which leaves only one possibility that there is a separate _agreement_ between the Carriers and the Government which includes the penalties described by Bevan. 

If blackholing this IP was so important for the authorities issuing it, why was the IP 'suddenly' restored after awareness was raised about this issue primarily through this list, EFF and several other persons directly to the Auditor General… 

I could keep speculating until the cows come home… but this whole episode raises far more questions than answers.

On 13/04/2013, at 5:05 PM, Danny O'Brien wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 11:54 PM, hannah commodore <hannah at tinfoilhat.net> wrote:
> Speaking of specific LEA requests may be disallowed, but nothing prevents operators from discussing them generally.
> Acknowledging that carriers do occasionally receive requests to block a /32, and act on them, is all that the OP is asking
> 
> 
> Also: it may be that no-one ever receives secret orders to block IPs, and such agreements don't exist. In which case, it's really very easy to publicly deny the existence of such orders. You're not going to get into trouble for going public about the non-existence of non-existent agreements.
> 
> (The fact that nobody has categorically denied it yet does not indicate that such orders *do* exist. It may simply be proving the existence of people who take the weekend off work and/or don't read AusNog threads of 60+ emails, of which I have circumstantial but not conclusive evidence.)
> 
> d.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> On 13/04/2013, at 10:59, Bevan Slattery <bevan at slattery.net.au> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Serge,
>> 
>> This is a network operators group.  If you don't know what a "lawful request" is, then you don't operate a network (at least envisaged by this list).  If you are wanting to know what the "lawful request in this instance" then you don't operate a network, because if you did, you would know that if you receive a lawful request to block, then you can't talk about it, meaning you won't get an answer to your question on this list.
>> 
>> Either way, do your research off list please – it's [mostly] all there.  The rest of it is when you do your Interception Capability Plan with the Attorney Generals Department and others and as you can guess – they/we can't talk about that either.  But we (Network Operators) all already know that too…
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> [b]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Serge Burjak <sburjak at systech.com.au>
>> Date: Saturday, 13 April 2013 10:37 AM
>> To: J Williams <jphwilliams at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Understanding lack of Aus connectivity to melbournefreeuniversity.org.
>> 
>> What is a lawful request in this instance?
>> 
>> On 13/04/2013, at 9:56, J Williams <jphwilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Finally a sensible answer.
>>> The carriers may be complying with a request from a lawful enforcement agency to filter this IP address, and are therefore unable to provide any further details, as per their obligations.
>>> Telling them to 'man up' (which could be interpreted as sexist) or shooting down the intermediary is ridiculous and unhelpful.
>>> 
>>> Firstly, since this is deliberately blocked, the parties involved need to direct their queries to the relevant government body, perhaps -> http://www.afp.gov.au/contact.aspx
>>> Secondly, the internet has many workarounds, the end user can change hosting (to within Australia?) or ask the current provider for a different IP address, etc.
>>> 
>>> Please let us know how you go Danny.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Julian
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Phillip Grasso <phillip.grasso at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If government interception was involved any parties cooperating wouldn't be able to say anything. Why won't the end user move another service and see if the block follows them.
>>> 
>>> On 11/04/2013 12:38 PM, "Joshua D'Alton" <joshua at railgun.com.au> wrote:
>>> **ford.com
>>> 
>>> Well theres the culprit... ;)
>>> 
>>> The sad thing is the real culprit site has more than likely already moved to another IP, leaving all these legit sites up the creek. It's the piracy/DRM argument all over again :(
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Simon Lyall <simon at darkmere.gen.nz> wrote:
>>> 1. Works from New Zealand
>>> 
>>> 2. There is a list of websites hosted on that IP at http://sameid.net/ip/198.136.54.104 . However they obscure the first two characters of each domain. Skimming though it nothing really jumped out. A fairly high number of Australian sites, all boring stuff:
>>> 
>>> www.clanfraser.org.au
>>> www.tradecoastproperties.com.au
>>> www.fromholtz.com.au
>>> www.brunswickplace.com.au
>>> www.bluewaterdeliveries.com.au
>>> 
>>> I keep expecting to find a Queensland dentist..
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Simon Lyall  |  Very Busy  |  Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/
>>> "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.
>>> 
>>> 
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