[AusNOG] Understanding lack of Aus connectivity to melbournefreeuniversity.org.

Sat Apr 13 12:10:34 EST 2013

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Bevan Slattery <bevan at slattery.net.au>wrote:

> Nope – wrong.  You get a notice to block.  You block or either get fined,
> go to jail or lose your carrier licence.  It is a blunt instrument and it
> is a condition of being at "the big boys table" i.e. you're a carrier or a
> carriage service provider.  You don't ask too many questions, you don't
> post it to Ausnog and have a decision by committee.  You block the IP
> address as you are required to by law and you do it immediately.
>
>
Bevan,

Just to clarify here: are you saying there is an established process under
the Telecommunications Act whereby Internet ISPs in Australia have been
required to block specific IPs by law enforcement, with a secrecy
requirement attached? And that's it's separate from the voluntary, DNS,
filter agreed to by some ISPs?

It would seem, given the extremely strong public reaction to the public
filter proposals, that this might be something of a matter of public
interest. At the very least, it would be hard to keep a list of /32
blackholes secret, given the number of people that BGP feed might be shared
with. Are internal BGP route databases also covered by this secrecy
requirement?

d.

> End of story.
>
> Again, this is a Network Operators List.  We know how this works.  Network
> Operators do not complain about this.  This is a legal requirement of being
> a Carrier or CSP in this country.  If this was a legal request it was
> implemented as planned.
>
> [b]
>
> PS:  If you're complaining that your client has no idea of why their
> website is down then instead of pointing the finger at the carriers who are
> doing what they are legally required to do, how about you explain to the
> client that you failed to adequately explain how "shared hosting" works and
> that the impact is sitting on a shared IP address with other sites can be.
>
>
> From: Aqius <aqius at lavabit.com>
> Date: Saturday, 13 April 2013 11:08 AM
>
> To: 'Serge Burjak' <sburjak at systech.com.au>, 'J Williams' <
> jphwilliams at gmail.com>
> Cc: <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Understanding lack of Aus connectivity to
> melbournefreeuniversity.org.
>
> As an outsider, this block appears to have been terribly executed. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Presuming there is a single site or at most a few that are the cause of
> the block, over 1000 other sites have had their business or welfare
> interrupted. Blocked since at least Wednesday according to the MFU facebook
> page. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I’ll leave whether transparency of filtering is appropriate or not, but it
> is clear from this event that the process at least needs to be if we are to
> have any form of confidence one of us or our clients are going to be safe
> from disappearing inappropriately.****
>
> ** **
>
> If the party responsible for implementing the filter was a commercial
> business, there would be some significant repercussions. It is entirely
> reasonable that the government be subject to the same level of
> expectations. ****
>
> ** **
>
> 1.       Was any communication attempted with the hosting provider to
> target the site?****
>
> 2.       Was any communication initiated with other parties that might be
> affected?****
>
> 3.       Will there be reasonable compensation provided to the
> inadvertently affected parties, including the hosting provider assuming
> they have not contributed to the pain?****
>
> 4.       If MFU was not affected, how would an inappropriately affected
> client know and how would they see it released?****
>
> ** **
>
> It is a stretch to think that secrecy was required for some reason (a
> police or ASIO sting operation etc) in the filters implementation, but even
> if that was the case, an appropriate transparent policy could still provide
> avenues for official query and resolution.****
>
> ** **
>
> It is logical that the members of this list at least notified of the
> policy as we are the ones that will need to work with it and around it.
> Considering the seemingly bungled job that was has been done in this case,
> I also suggest it best if we actually help create it.****
>
> ** **
>
> If such a policy is already in place, how did we end up here?****
>
> ** **
>
> R’s,****
>
> Jason****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [
> mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>]
> *On Behalf Of *Serge Burjak
> *Sent:* Saturday, 13 April 2013 10:37
> *To:* J Williams
> *Cc:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Understanding lack of Aus connectivity to
> melbournefreeuniversity.org.****
>
> ** **
>
> What is a lawful request in this instance?****
>
>
> On 13/04/2013, at 9:56, J Williams <jphwilliams at gmail.com> wrote:****
>
> Finally a sensible answer.****
>
> The carriers may be complying with a request from a lawful enforcement
> agency to filter this IP address, and are therefore unable to provide any
> further details, as per their obligations.****
>
> Telling them to 'man up' (which could be interpreted as sexist) or
> shooting down the intermediary is ridiculous and unhelpful.****
>
> ** **
>
> Firstly, since this is deliberately blocked, the parties involved need to
> direct their queries to the relevant government body, perhaps ->
> http://www.afp.gov.au/contactaspx <http://www.afp.gov.au/contact.aspx>****
>
> Secondly, the internet has many workarounds, the end user can change
> hosting (to within Australia?) or ask the current provider for a different
> IP address, etc.****
>
> ** **
>
> Please let us know how you go Danny.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,****
>
> Julian****
>
> ** **
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Phillip Grasso <phillip.grasso at gmail.com>
> wrote:****
>
> If government interception was involved any parties cooperating wouldn't
> be able to say anything. Why won't the end user move another service and
> see if the block follows them.****
>
> On 11/04/2013 12:38 PM, "Joshua D'Alton" <joshua at railgun.com.au> wrote:***
> *
>
> **ford.com****
>
> ** **
>
> Well theres the culprit... ;)
>
> The sad thing is the real culprit site has more than likely already moved
> to another IP, leaving all these legit sites up the creek. It's the
> piracy/DRM argument all over again :(****
>
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Simon Lyall <simon at darkmere.gen.nz>
> wrote:****
>
> 1. Works from New Zealand
>
> 2. There is a list of websites hosted on that IP at
> http://sameid.net/ip/198.136.54.104 . However they obscure the first two
> characters of each domain. Skimming though it nothing really jumped out. A
> fairly high number of Australian sites, all boring stuff:
>
> www.clanfraser.org.au
> www.tradecoastproperties.com.au
> www.fromholtz.com.au
> www.brunswickplace.com.au
> www.bluewaterdeliveries.com.au
>
> I keep expecting to find a Queensland dentist..
>
> --
> Simon Lyall  |  Very Busy  |  Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/
> "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.****
>
>
>
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