<div dir="ltr">On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Bevan Slattery <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bevan@slattery.net.au" target="_blank">bevan@slattery.net.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;word-wrap:break-word"><div>Nope – wrong. You get a notice to block. You block or either get fined, go to jail or lose your carrier licence. It is a blunt instrument and it is a condition of being at "the big boys table" i.e. you're a carrier or a carriage service provider. You don't ask too many questions, you don't post it to Ausnog and have a decision by committee. You block the IP address as you are required to by law and you do it immediately.</div>
<div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Bevan, <br><br>Just to clarify here: are you saying there is an established process under the Telecommunications Act whereby Internet ISPs in Australia have been required to block specific IPs by law enforcement, with a secrecy requirement attached? And that's it's separate from the voluntary, DNS, filter agreed to by some ISPs?<br>
<br>It would seem, given the extremely strong public reaction to the public filter proposals, that this might be something of a matter of public interest. At the very least, it would be hard to keep a list of /32 blackholes secret, given the number of people that BGP feed might be shared with. Are internal BGP route databases also covered by this secrecy requirement?<br>
<br>d.<br><br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;word-wrap:break-word">
<div></div><div>End of story.</div><div><br></div><div>Again, this is a Network Operators List. We know how this works. Network Operators do not complain about this. This is a legal requirement of being a Carrier or CSP in this country. If this was a legal request it was implemented as planned.</div>
<div><br></div><div>[b]</div><div><br></div><div>PS: If you're complaining that your client has no idea of why their website is down then instead of pointing the finger at the carriers who are doing what they are legally required to do, how about you explain to the client that you failed to adequately explain how "shared hosting" works and that the impact is sitting on a shared IP address with other sites can be.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><span><div style="padding:3pt 0in 0in;text-align:left;font-size:11pt;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;font-family:Calibri">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Aqius <<a href="mailto:aqius@lavabit.com" target="_blank">aqius@lavabit.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Saturday, 13 April 2013 11:08 AM<div class="im">
<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> 'Serge Burjak' <<a href="mailto:sburjak@systech.com.au" target="_blank">sburjak@systech.com.au</a>>, 'J Williams' <<a href="mailto:jphwilliams@gmail.com" target="_blank">jphwilliams@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div><div><div class="h5"><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> <<a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [AusNOG] Understanding lack of Aus connectivity to <a href="http://melbournefreeuniversity.org" target="_blank">melbournefreeuniversity.org</a>.<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-AU"><div><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">As an outsider, this block appears to have been terribly executed. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Presuming there is a single site or at most a few that are the cause of the block, over 1000 other sites have had their business or welfare interrupted. Blocked since at least Wednesday according to the MFU facebook page. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I’ll leave whether transparency of filtering is appropriate or not, but it is clear from this event that the process at least needs to be if we are to have any form of confidence one of us or our clients are going to be safe from disappearing inappropriately.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If the party responsible for implementing the filter was a commercial business, there would be some significant repercussions. It is entirely reasonable that the government be subject to the same level of expectations. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>1.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Was any communication attempted with the hosting provider to target the site?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>2.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Was any communication initiated with other parties that might be affected?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>3.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Will there be reasonable compensation provided to the inadvertently affected parties, including the hosting provider assuming they have not contributed to the pain?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>4.<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If MFU was not affected, how would an inappropriately affected client know and how would they see it released?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">It is a stretch to think that secrecy was required for some reason (a police or ASIO sting operation etc) in the filters implementation, but even if that was the case, an appropriate transparent policy could still provide avenues for official query and resolution.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">It is logical that the members of this list at least notified of the policy as we are the ones that will need to work with it and around it. Considering the seemingly bungled job that was has been done in this case, I also suggest it best if we actually help create it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If such a policy is already in place, how did we end up here?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">R’s,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jason<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=""><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a> [<a href="mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">mailto:ausnog-bounces@lists.ausnog.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Serge Burjak<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 13 April 2013 10:37<br><b>To:</b> J Williams<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" target="_blank">ausnog@lists.ausnog.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusNOG] Understanding lack of Aus connectivity to <a href="http://melbournefreeuniversity.org" target="_blank">melbournefreeuniversity.org</a>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><p class=""><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="">What is a lawful request in this instance?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br>On 13/04/2013, at 9:56, J Williams <<a href="mailto:jphwilliams@gmail.com" target="_blank">jphwilliams@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><p class="">Finally a sensible answer.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="">The carriers may be complying with a request from a lawful enforcement agency to filter this IP address, and are therefore unable to provide any further details, as per their obligations.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="">Telling them to 'man up' (which could be interpreted as sexist) or shooting down the intermediary is ridiculous and unhelpful.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=""><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
<div><p class="">Firstly, since this is deliberately blocked, the parties involved need to direct their queries to the relevant government body, perhaps -> <a href="http://www.afp.gov.au/contact.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.afp.gov.au/contactaspx</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="">Secondly, the internet has many workarounds, the end user can change hosting (to within Australia?) or ask the current provider for a different IP address, etc.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="">Please let us know how you go Danny.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=""><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="">Julian<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div><div><p class="" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="">On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Phillip Grasso <<a href="mailto:phillip.grasso@gmail.com" target="_blank">phillip.grasso@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>If government interception was involved any parties cooperating wouldn't be able to say anything. Why won't the end user move another service and see if the block follows them.<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="">
On 11/04/2013 12:38 PM, "Joshua D'Alton" <<a href="mailto:joshua@railgun.com.au" target="_blank">joshua@railgun.com.au</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(221,238,238)">**<a href="http://ford.com" target="_blank">ford.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class=""><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Well theres the culprit... ;)<br></span><br>The sad thing is the real culprit site has more than likely already moved to another IP, leaving all these legit sites up the creek. It's the piracy/DRM argument all over again :(<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="">On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Simon Lyall <<a href="mailto:simon@darkmere.gen.nz" target="_blank">simon@darkmere.gen.nz</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="">1. Works from New Zealand<br><br>2. There is a list of websites hosted on that IP at <a href="http://sameid.net/ip/198.136.54.104" target="_blank">http://sameid.net/ip/198.136.54.104</a> . However they obscure the first two characters of each domain. Skimming though it nothing really jumped out. A fairly high number of Australian sites, all boring stuff:<br>
<br><a href="http://www.clanfraser.org.au" target="_blank">www.clanfraser.org.au</a><br><a href="http://www.tradecoastproperties.com.au" target="_blank">www.tradecoastproperties.com.au</a><br><a href="http://www.fromholtz.com.au" target="_blank">www.fromholtz.com.au</a><br>
<a href="http://www.brunswickplace.com.au" target="_blank">www.brunswickplace.com.au</a><br><a href="http://www.bluewaterdeliveries.com.au" target="_blank">www.bluewaterdeliveries.com.au</a><br><br>I keep expecting to find a Queensland dentist..<span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><br>
<br>-- <br>Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: <a href="http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/" target="_blank">http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/</a><br>"To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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