[AusNOG] Network Operators Unite Against SORBS (do they now?)

Wed Oct 13 13:37:44 EST 2010

Hi All,

I usually lurk here, but spam discussions are further up my alley.

I agree there are plenty of frustrations with SORBS, but I'll take SORBS over Senderbase any day.

SORBS may have had incidents of slow delisting, but I've had multiple clients listed that we always cleaned up within a few hours. At least they have a delisting process. Senderbase' official delisting process is basically to send "good" email for as long as it takes to outweigh the bad. Talking about transparency? At least SORBS' listing and delisting process is documented. What formula determines the amount of "clean" mail that needs to go through to fix your reputation under Senderbase? Here is a response from Senderbase support:

<quote>
Once all issues have been addressed (fixed), reputation recovery can take anywhere from a few hours to just over one week to improve, depending on the specifics of the situation, and how much email volume the IP sends
</quote>

So for our client' situation - how long did it take? 12 days.

Senderbase once had a client of ours flagged as having "incorrect reverse DNS". It did - for one day. The support ticket we put in when Senderbase failed to recognise this went in on 21st March. On 31rd March we got a reply only stating the following:

<quote>
SenderBase contains information on over 32 million IP addresses that send email, it can take up to 3 months for network owner and other contact/hostname information to be updated. Since there is no way to know the how recently the information for your IPs was updated by our system, it is had to say how soon it will re-update. In any case it should not be longer that 3 months.
</quote>

I can't tell you how dumb you look to a client when Senderbase reports their IP with "no reverse DNS", when you've fact you may have set it up up to "3 months" ago.

Where I'm going with this is that the only "response" I've found effective is to make damn sure you don't let a single email out your IP until you've covered all the right bases. Be proactive and you won't have an issue. Attempting to block anything only makes you a part of the problem.

Joshua Small

Daraco Services
IT Consulting and Support
Unit 17, 7 Anella Avenue Castle Hill 2154
Phone: 1300 327 226 Fax: +612 8588 1200
Email: jsmall at daraco.com.au www.daraco.com.au

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-----Original Message-----
From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Fort
Sent: Wednesday, 13 October 2010 9:54 AM
To: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: [AusNOG] Network Operators Unite Against SORBS (do they now?)

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 11:37 PM, iHate SORBS <ihatesorbs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Network Operators Unite Against SORBS

Is this a statement, a demand, or a request?

> Do you, or have you had problems with SORBS?

Naturally.  Some people, especially those who don't identify
themselves and act unaccountably, can be a real annoyance.

> Tired of being able to do nothing about it?

No.  I just went to the pub.

> Sick of opening a trouble ticket, only to get delisted weeks later?

No, but then again, why are you still running a mailserver when you
apparently use gmail?

> I am calling on all Network Operators to stand up and stop routing
> dnsbl.sorbs.net until that time they can commit to making real changes.

When I was younger, I used to be annoyed about such things.  Perhaps
it was because I had a small mind and an equal ability to argue my
point rationally.  What's your excuse?

But you know, Mr. Hater, and as much as you don't like it, just like
everyone has an arsehole, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even
that sorbs guy, and you too, mr. "iHate SORBS" guy (do you have an
iphone app too?).  While it's not protected in Australia's
constitution

Whoever you are, calling yourself "ihatesorbs at gmail.com" isn't gonna
help your case.  Who would put their arse on the line and null-route
someone at the behest of someone hiding behind a gmail alias you
likely created this morning (lemme guess: you got paged at 2AM and you
were pissed off?).

Customer: "uhh so my mailserver borked because you blocked this sorbs
thing I was happily using!"
Operator: "This guy called I HATE SORBS encouraged me to null-route it"
Customer: ".... Please cancel my service, you flaming douchebag."

If you feel so strongly about it, why don't you put up a website - go
and register "ihatesorbs.com" (not registered) or "sorbssucks.com"
(oops, "someone" already registered that; but hey "sorbsblows.com" is
avaiable!), and point your customers at it.  You can put up logs
describing how it impacts you, what it means to your customers, how
they can avoid the fail, what the impact of SORBS' work has been
against the spam problem (yes, he's tilting at sunflowers and as far
as I can tell, is a persistent failure, but a failure over the last...
what? 15 years? nonetheless).

If you want to break a little part of the internet - for yourself and
your customers (assuming you have any), after all; in the words of
Randy Bush, "i encourage my competitors to operate their networks in
that manner".

Have a nice day, and do post the website if you create it :-).

> -Operator

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 12:48 AM, Sean K. Finn
<sean.finn at ozservers.com.au> wrote:
> You've obviously been to an AusNOG Drinking session before.
> Generally Bacon, IPv6 and Sorbs-Hating is on the agenda.
>

Not that there's anything wrong with bacon, after all.  I think a BLT
with extra bacon, drizzled with bacon fat and then deep fried in bacon
grease is a thoroughly hearty breakfast.  (also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWu-gqoMUn0)

> I'm not sure about going so far as to null-routing them, it's not up to us
> to deny our customers enough rope to hang themselves with, but as for a
> reputation based list, their pervasive aura is exceptionally low as there
> appears to be no GENUINE accountability or transparency on how they operate.
>
> S

That's true, and equally true is that people don't have to receive
mail from your system, or your customer's.  As much as it makes your
customers moan, welcome to the internet :)

-a

-- 
Andreux Fort (afort at choqolat.org)
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