[AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history

Fri Jun 11 15:18:12 EST 2010

Richard,

Forget the EC Directive.

Be very, very concerned by the amount/type of information and the length
of time of retention that is being discussed here in Australia.  Be
very, very concerned.  Participation is by a closed group and the
contents are generally confidential.  Confidentiality is required as the
public would be aghast in horror with what is being suggested.  Certain
agencies are particularly excited about a phrase called "intelligence
led policing".  Meaning that it would be helpful for certain agencies to
use this information to create known associates and personal profiles
using any information stored/retained by ISP's/CSP's in case it's
necessary for a *future* crime and/or investigation.

A further gross erosion of our privacy rights all in the name of
protecting us from "terrorism and paedophiles".  Where have I heard that
before?  Oh yeah.  That's right.  Nearly forgot.

If you are a member of the IIA, I would strongly encourage you to
contact them for further information.

Just so we are clear:

- Propose to implement Government filtering system which checks every
URL entered by every Australian
- Propose to implement Government Data Retention system for all ISP's to
maintain substantial information about user internet and communication
history (including browsing history and emails for MANY years)
- Propose to implement single NBN
- Remove Government funding for AusCERT and establish Government run
CERT

Can't wait for the "Ministry of Truth"
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Truth) to be formed.  Or
perhaps it will be called the "Minstry of anti-bunkum and balderdash"
(http://tinyurl.com/38xj64s).

[b]

PS:  Media do not call or email and do not quote in accordance with the
list Charter.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net 
> [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Richard Bayliss
> Sent: Friday, 11 June 2010 2:23 PM
> To: Tom Wright
> Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
> 
> I'm no lawyer, but I did have a look at the EC directive 
> which was mentioned in the zdnet article. 
> 
> There seemed to be several protections for service providers 
> built into the document:
> 
> "(23) Given that the obligations on providers of electronic 
> communications services should be proportionate, this 
> Directive requires that they retain only such data as are 
> generated or processed in the process of supplying their 
> communications services. To the extent that such data are not 
> generated or processed by those providers, there is no 
> obligation to retain them. This Directive is not intended to 
> harmonise the technology for retaining data, the choice of 
> which is a matter to be resolved at national level.
> 
> [..]
> 
> "Art 1, 2. This Directive shall apply to traffic and location 
> data on both legal entities and natural persons and to the 
> related data necessary to identify the subscriber or 
> registered user. It shall not apply to the content of 
> electronic communications, including information consulted 
> using an electronic communications network.
> 
> [..]
> 
> "Art 5, 2. No data revealing the content of the communication 
> may be retained pursuant to this Directive."
> 
> (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:20
06:105:0054:0063:EN:PDF)
> 
> I would assume that the Australian industry would highlight 
> the need for something similar in anything proposed by the government.
> 
> Cheers
> Rich
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/06/2010, at 2:09 PM, Tom Wright wrote:
> 
> I acknowledge the IIA's suggestion to "engage not only with 
> the industry..." - but I find that notion particularly hard 
> to take seriously.
> 
> Looking back over the government's track record of 'engaging' 
> with our industry would suggest that they'll be quick to 
> censor any dissenters and alienate everyone in the process.
> 
> ... and then just to show their support, they'll notionally 
> withdraw support for one of the successful gems of the IT 
> industry in favour of an expensive, bureaucratic monolith.
> 
> Have the ALP lost their minds?
> 
> 
> -- Tom
> 
> 
> On 11/06/2010, at 12:56 PM, Brad Gould wrote:
> 
> > Of course if they were serious about stopping all the "bad stuff" 
> > they'll introduce the same legislation to apply to snail mail and 
> > telephone calls.
> > 
> > /end snark
> > 
> > Its clearly unacceptable.  And technically infeasible.  
> What sort of 
> > labour think tank and focus groups are ok with these ideas? 
>  The mind 
> > boggles.
> > 
> > Brad
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 11/06/2010 12:27, Peter Childs wrote:
> >> 
> >> If they really want this stuff why don't they just ask 
> google...  sheesh...
> >> 
> >> On 11/06/2010, at 12:24 PM, Arkady Gundroff wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Makes me wonder who will wear the cost of retaining said 
> data, let alone making the API and paying for the 
> interconnects to the BigBr^H^H^H^H^H government.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net 
> >>> [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Sean K. Finn
> >>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:50 PM
> >>> To: 'Rob Byrnes'; 'ausnog at ausnog.net'
> >>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
> >>> 
> >>> Next they'll want an API so they can interact with the 
> records and change them as necessary...
> >>> 
> >>> I wonder if that's the next step.
> >>> 
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net 
> >>> [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Rob Byrnes
> >>> Sent: Friday, 11 June 2010 12:45 PM
> >>> To: ausnog at ausnog.net
> >>> Subject: [AusNOG] Govt wants ISPs to record user history
> >>> 
> >>> 
> http://www.zdnet.com.au/govt-wants-isps-to-record-user-data-33930378
> >>> 5.htm
> >>> 
> >>> Not only will there be a firewall to contend with, but possibly a 
> >>> data retention policy ... where's that book I was reading ... by 
> >>> some bloke called Orwell.
> >>> 
> >>> Any members of this list been contacted for "discussion"?
> >>> 
> > 
> > --
> > Brad Gould, Network Engineer
> > Internode
> > PO Box 284, Rundle Mall 5000
> > Level 5, 162 Grenfell Street, Adelaide 5000
> > P: 08 8228 2999  F: 08 8235 6999
> > bradley at internode.com.au; http://www.internode.on.net/ 
> > _______________________________________________
> > AusNOG mailing list
> > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> 
> --
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Tom Wright
> Internode Network Operations
> P: +61 8 8228 2999
> W: http://www.internode.on.net
> 
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