[AusNOG] ISOC-AU position on filtering - with Skeeve's thoughts

[Mark Smith]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:38:30 +1000
Skeeve Stevens <Skeeve at eintellego.net> wrote:

> Guys,
> 
> My opinion on the filtering issue.  A few ISOC-AU members are on ausnog/aussie-isp so feel free to add to, flame, or comment on what the filtering solution should be.
> 
> I just think we have to be realistic about what we can and can't fight.  Filtering is fine as long as we aren't all made to do it.  If we aren't made to do it, many of us won't care, but I do think many of us would introduce product support anyway.
> 

Isn't (thinking about) making money off of it tacitly supporting
it? That seems to me to be a slippery slope. "I'll accept anything the
government does, as long as I'm making money off of it."



> Just a side note.  A lot of organisations are putting a LOT of effort into these issues.  I really encourage you all to join organisations like ISOC-AU, Comms Alliance, and other groups who are fighting for our rights.
> 
> ...Skeeve
> 
> --
> Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director
> eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists
> skeeve at eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net
> Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954
> Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve
> www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego
> --
> NOC, NOC, who's there?
> 
> From: iamems-bounces at lists.isoc-au.org.au [mailto:iamems-bounces at lists.isoc-au.org.au] On Behalf Of Skeeve Stevens
> Sent: Sunday, 18 July 2010 8:32 PM
> To: Holly Raiche; ISOC-AU Members Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [ISOC-AU-mems] ISOC_AU position on filtering
> 
> Holly,
> 
> I have thought long and hard about it and I've decided I am NOT against filtering per say.  I am only against it being mandatory that an ISP must filter its entire connection for all its customers.
> 
> What we have here is an issue to address.  It won't go away.  If it isn't now, it will be later.  There is clearly a desire and a need from a certain segment of the community for some sort of filtering - whether we like it or not.
> 
> I do NOT believe desktop filtering is a viable option... it is just too easy to get around and the burden on the parents to manage it when they often barely understand what their kids are doing - is just too much to ask.
> 
> What I do support is however, is a government that financially supports ISP's who wish to be 100% a filtered ISP, or those wishing to offer filtering products.  This can be done with discounted equipment, tax breaks, advertising and advise support (www.filterme.gov.au) or something like this.
> 
> If you take a look at Webshield (www.webshield.com.au<http://www.webshield.com.au>), they are a perfect example of how I think this could work.
> 
> If a parent is worried about what their kids can do, then they should sign up for a 'filtered' ISP or ISP product.  This means the parents don't have to worry about what is going on with their kids computers at home or school (should they join up).
> 
> We've talked about the many ways people can get past filtering.
> 
> -          Alternate web ports
> 
> -          VPN technologies
> 
> -          Bit Torrent or other P2P technologies
> 
> -          FTP or other file transfer technologies
> 
> -          Email attachments
> 
> -          Facebook/social sites
> 
> -          The list is endless.
> 
> But, if you had an ISP like Webshield (and I am sure 50 would spring up over night, that specialised in filtering), then you could deal with nearly all of the above by locking things down big time.
> 
> This kind of product, or ISP is what I would be happy to see the government throw some money at.
> 
> I believe this deals with most of our objections.  Those who don't want to be filtered, don't have to be.  Those that want a certain level, or fully filtered, can join an ISP whose specific job it is to do that.  Those ISP's that don't have the hardware can't be made to do it by project/legal creep.
> 
> I think the ISOC-AU and Safer Internet Group needs to be VERY clear about their position and explaining what the government intends to do - which is filter ALL internet providers - even business ones - where all that is really required is that ISPs be supported by the government if they chose to implement the solutions - which many will if it is voluntary.
> 
> 
> ...Skeeve
> 
> --
> Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director
> eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists
> skeeve at eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net
> Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954
> Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve
> www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego
> --
> NOC, NOC, who's there?
> 
> From: iamems-bounces at lists.isoc-au.org.au [mailto:iamems-bounces at lists.isoc-au.org.au] On Behalf Of Holly Raiche
> Sent: Saturday, 17 July 2010 2:40 PM
> To: ISOC-AU Members Discussion List
> Subject: [ISOC-AU-mems] ISOC_AU position on filtering
> 
> HI Everyone
> 
> As you would all be aware, we are now in election mode.  The Safer Internet Group is meeting next Tuesday to discuss/refine our messages and what we take into the campaign. (see <http://www.saferinternetgroup.org/>)
> 
> There is a given among all members - no mandatory filtering.
> There are positives - emphasis on education for kids, parents, teachers
> cooperation with law enforcement agencies
> 
> The one issue that causes discussion in about filtering.  Our view is that mandatory filtering, as proposed by Government will not be effective.  However, if people want to use tools in their own homes, that's fine.  What does raise questions is why we support any kind of filtering when it will always be impossible to stop access to all material.
> 
> The other issues raised by Conroy's latest announcement are:
> he is proposing restricting voluntary filtering to just child pornography. In many countries, that is the trend - are we happy with that
> The reason for voluntary filtering is that he wants to review the RC classification and its appropriateness for use as the level of filtering that he is still talking about imposing - only now delayed.
> 
> Are we happy with that?
> 
> Any and all contributions are welcome - feedback that I can bring back to the Group - to help form the campaign strategy of Group members
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Holly Raiche
> Executive Director,
> Internet Society of Australia (ISOC-AU)
> ed at isoc-au.org.au<mailto:ed at isoc-au.org.au>
> Mob: 0412 688 544
> Ph: (02) 9436 2149
> 
> The Internet is For Everyone
> 
> 
> 
>