[AusNOG] What are we , collectively, doing about the impending mandatatory censorship scheme?

Fri Jul 9 08:30:15 EST 2010

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:00:21 +1000
Andrew E <edo at ohlawd.net> wrote:

> I was watching V for Vendetta last night. What is fictional in that  
> movie is becoming a reality here in aus (monitoring all  
> communications, blacklists, etc...)
> 

I also recently watched it too (before the KRudd coup). At the time,
there was a significant parallel between the Chancellors' committee in
that movie and Kevin Rudd's "Kitchen Cabinet", of which Gillard and Swan
were members. There is also a parallel in what Creedy and Gillard did
to the Chancellor and KRudd, respectively. Gillard and Swan might
denounce the KRudd model now, but that is only because it threatened
theirs' and Labor's re-election chances. They were complicit with it
when that threat previously didn't exist.

This article, by Alan Kohler, "Ending Australian autocracy" is deeply
concerning.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Kevin-Rudd-Julia-Gillard-RSPT-mining-tax-resource--pd20100702-6XSAT

"After last week's convulsive expulsion of Kevin Rudd, Canberra is now
settling back into its normal routines. The common wisdom in the
nation's capital now is that Rudd's systematic subversion of federal
cabinet was just the work of a rogue individual and that his sacking by
the Labor caucus was an affirmation, in a way, of the strength of the
Australian system of governance."

..

"In my view that's not good enough. I invited last night's group of
senior executive service members to think about what would have
happened if there had been a terrorist emergency in the past couple of
months that not only made it impossible for Rudd's enemies in caucus to
remove him but actually reinforced and continued his autocratic style
of government, in which all decisions were made by him and a small
coterie of ministers – in the national interest, of course."

Manufacturing a such terrorist emergency isn't much further of a step.
The gap between were we were under KRudd and the scenario played out in
V for Vendetta is a very small one.

People might think that "this is Australia, and that wouldn't happen".
Well, maybe people haven't realised the significance of how this
government has engaged ISPs regarding the URL / Email recording
initiative.

*They did it under NDA*

There are valid reasons why governments should use NDAs - national
security, or commercial in confidence situations e.g. bids on
government contracts.

This government did it because they feared, quite rightly, that it
would be unpopular. They didn't want open discussion of it because it'd
further damage their election chances. That is not an acceptable reason
to use a legal NDA. There is no threat to national security or
commercial contracts. Potential policies such as this one need open and
rational discussion, to identify the tradeoffs involved, and whether we
as citizens are willing to accept them. Because, remember, the
government represents us, the citizens, not the other way around.

The ISPs involved, by acceptance of those terms, whether they've
realised it or not, in effect have said they're scared of the
government and the power the government wields. If the government is
willing to scare major and high profile corporations, for it's own
re-election ends, what measures or "manufactured event" would that
government be willing go to to scare the general population into
re-electing it? It isn't all that hard to guess - they might even make
entertaining movies about what could happen.

How close we are and have been in recent times to "V for Vendetta" and
"1984" type scenarios is deeply concerning...

> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 08/07/2010, at 3:26 PM, "Chris Pollock" <Chris.Pollock at staff.pipenetworks.com 
>  > wrote:
> 
> > IMO the the two things are different halves of the same plan, as  
> > Bevan touched on some weeks ago.
> >
> > - implement a filtering system which checks every URL entered by  
> > every Australian
> > - implement a data retention system for all ISP's to maintain  
> > substantial information about user internet and communication history
> > - implement a single national broadband network
> > - remove AusCERT and establish Government run CERT
> >
> > So they'd own/run the network, track what you do on it, only allow  
> > you access to the things they want you to see, and then control the  
> > threat response.  I hope the Telescreen can view YouTube videos.
> >
> > Sounds like a recipe to take control of the Internet to me.  I'll  
> > happily kill the NBN if it means killing the filter.  The last five  
> > houses I've lived in have had over 16mbps down and 1meg up, I  
> > haven't had a problem with Internet access speed since dialup in  
> > 2001.  And those edge cases that can't get any decent speeds aren't  
> > even going to be serviced by the NBN anyway, USO Corp will be taking  
> > the Universal Service Obligation customers off Telstra's hands.
> >
> > You don't have to look at many heat maps to realise that getting  
> > acceptable broadband speed to the majority of homes is NOT the real  
> > goal of the NBN.  Losing it isn't just collateral damage, it's  
> > cutting off two heads of the same hydra.
> >
> > --
> > Chris Pollock
> > Technical & Install Manager
> > PIPE Networks Limited
> >
> > PPC-1 is now live!
> > 6900 km, 20 Months, 2.56 Tbps, 12.5 kilovolts, $200 Million and 100%  
> > Australian Owned.
> > http://www.pipeinternational.com
> >
> > Mobile :  +61 4 1074 7765
> > Phone :  +61 7 3233 9813
> > Fax     :  +61 7 3233 9885
> > Web    :  www.pipenetworks.com
> >
> >
> >
> > From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog- 
> > bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Oskam
> > Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2010 1:49 AM
> > To: Skeeve Stevens
> > Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] What are we , collectively,doing about the  
> > impending mandatatory censorship scheme?
> >
> > I'm in the same boat as you Skeeve - my thoughts exactly
> > I just can't justify the loss of the NBN.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > -------------
> > Andrew Oskam
> >
> > On 08/07/2010, at 12:54 AM, Skeeve Stevens <Skeeve at eintellego.net>  
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Honestly, I am a Labor voter... well... was... not sure now.
> >>
> >>
> >> If Abbot hadn’t said he was going to scrap the NBN, I would be vot 
> >> ing for the      Liberals... bring back Turnbull... I liked him L
> >>
> >>
> >> ...Skeeve
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director
> >>
> >> eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists
> >>
> >> skeeve at eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net
> >>
> >> Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954
> >>
> >> Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve
> >>
> >> www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> NOC, NOC, who's there?
> >>
> >>
> >> From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog- 
> >> bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Moyle-Croft
> >> Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2010 12:48 AM
> >> To: Phillip Grasso
> >> Cc: Skeeve Stevens; ausnog at ausnog.net
> >> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] What are we , collectively, doing about the  
> >> impending      mandatatory censorship scheme?
> >>
> >>
> >> Senate seats might hurt them, but ask yourself this:
> >>
> >>
> >> What do you know about the Opposition's views on the filter?   If  
> >> Labor lose will it mean scraping the idea or claiming it as their  
> >> own to claim the same voting block?
> >>
> >>
> >> If the Opposition support it and so do Labor then the minorities  
> >> are irrelevant in the Senate.
> >>
> >>
> >> MMC
> >>
> >>
> >> On 07/07/2010, at 11:55 PM, Phillip Grasso wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> you raise good points, let me say this;
> >>
> >>
> >> Senate Seats. Hit them where it hurts.
> >>
> >>
> >> my back of envelope count is that we'll need 338K votes to get 1  
> >> senate seat.
> >>
> >>
> >> 1 Senate seat will probably be enough to do damage to a filtering  
> >> program, especially when they would want to do deals to get other  
> >> things across (assuming they don't have an overwhelming majority)
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 12:11 AM, Matthew Moyle-Croft <mmc at internode.com.au 
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 07/07/2010, at 11:22 PM, Phillip Grasso wrote:
> >>
> >> > its been pretty clear what Google position all along. Why else do  
> >> you think Conroy has it in for Google.
> >> >
> >> > The problem is that not enough 'outcry' from the industry is  
> >> there, so Conroy is free to say he's got the support of the  
> >> industry, with a possibly few big players in his back pocket due to  
> >> NBN, he can say things such as 'industry consultation/support' etc.
> >>
> >> I think we could be super organised, with a huge media budget and  
> >> the Fed Govt wouldn't change their mind before the election.
> >>
> >> If they did change their mind then the opposition would just use it  
> >> to show (a) they're backing down and not delivering on YET another  
> >> policy (b) not tough on Child Pornography (c) not protecting our  
> >> kids.  Which ever of the arguments works the best for TonyA at the  
> >> time.
> >>
> >> This isn't a rational argument.  It's clear the Conroy isn't  
> >> interested in rational arguments.   The whole proposal is laughable  
> >> (heck, I've just come back from the US where we ARE a joke because  
> >> of this - most people think it's already running!), but still, the  
> >> telecommunications industry is a poor block of votes compared to  
> >> keeping the conservative Christian lobby on side (the people who  
> >> want this).
> >>
> >> The focus really needs to be on these things:
> >>
> >> If Labor is reelected will they claim they have a mandate to  
> >> implement the filter (even if no one voted Labor because of it).    
> >> Or will it die as a "non-core promise" if Conroy is moved on as  
> >> telecommunications minister?
> >>
> >> If the Liberals are elected instead, what will they do?   Will they  
> >> show sanity and kill it (small-l liberal) or be beholden to the  
> >> same conservative Christian lobby who have convinced Labor it's a  
> >> good idea.
> >>
> >> Labor, as above, can't be and won't be able to chance their minds  
> >> before the election.  The question is - will this be an election  
> >> issue or will we be back to beating up on the vunerable and non- 
> >> voting refugees again like the tough people we are.   (Must remind  
> >> Christians like TonyA about what Christianity is about - seem to  
> >> remember a few bits from the Bible from Sunday school and Jesus  
> >> embracing everyone and looking after the poor and destitute, not  
> >> just some of them - anyway, offtopic).
> >>
> >> MMC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
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> >
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