[AusNOG] Hyperlink fines from ACMA

Tue Mar 17 20:44:36 EST 2009

These are really good questions Skeeve.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they'd have a go at a .com.au located
offshore, with a link to a site on their super secret blacklist. Presuming
that they wouldn't would be assuming that they have technical clue.. (if in
fact their stipulation is that the site is physically located in .au)

Grahame's statement re: catch22 is an excellent point. I presume they send a
cease and desist prior to the fines starting? Better make sure your whois
data is up-to-date!

So what happens if your site located in .au contains a link to a site
offshore which contains a link to one of the sites on their blacklist? Are
you still in breach? This scenario isn't outside the realm of possibility
(IMHO).

--Jay

From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net
[mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Skeeve Stevens
Sent: Tuesday, 17 March 2009 8:29 PM
To: Grahame Lynch
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Hyperlink fines from ACMA

Excellent Grahame!

Now let's try for further clarification!

Do you think this relates to data hosted by an Australian
'company/individual/etc' or actually onshore in the Commonwealth of
Australia.

Could Bulletproof move the Whirlpool website to a US physical server* (see
below), and tell the ACMA where to go?

* Is there a difference between having your own 'owned' servers in the US,
or if you resell another US hosting farm?

I really hope this is as simple as 'move it offshore' or 'I will move it to
one of my US (or wherever for FTA issues) servers, and then tell the ACMA
where to go'.

Also... If someone reports a complaint to the ACMA... I assume they are
doing so because they 'think' it is hosted in Australia.  This would
probably be guessed by the .au domain name we can assume.

Are .au domain named hosted on US servers safe? Or does the ACMA think they
have a say?  Is the first thing the ACMA does is a traceroute (which could
be misleading), and if it is outside out borders... they respond to the
complainant 'Sorry, can't help you'.

I am not advocating any particular method to avoiding the ACMA's powers... I
believe there is much badness on the internet which should be blocked (not
supporting national filters though) but I just want to understand EXACTLY
the extent of their authority and powers so I can advise people
appropriately until they change.

...Skeeve

--

Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director

eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists

skeeve at eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net

Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954

Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve

--

NOC, NOC, who's there?

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From: Grahame Lynch [mailto:grahamelynch at commsdaymail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 17 March 2009 8:15 PM
To: Skeeve Stevens
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Hyperlink fines from ACMA

Skeeve I usually lurk here but as a publisher who is conscious of my legal
liabilities my first thought is this - an Australian web hoster will have to
think long and hard about hosting any form of relatively lightly moderated
message board.

I know Whirlpool is modded but by volunteers without full legal training.

It will basically create the equivalent of 1970s UK pirate radio stations on
oil rigs off the coast - no website with any potential for liability would
want to be caught dead in ACMA's regulatory domicile. As far as I am aware
ACMA only has authority over content hosted in Australia (including those
publishing hyperlinks to prohibited content). So the incentive is to leave
the domicile basically.

Given the list of prohibited links is supposed to be secret how does a web
moderator really know if a poster has posted an offending link until they
are already in breach? Catch 22.

I currently run websites out of Australia but all this is a potential
nightmare, especially given one of my core topics of competence in my
content is critiquing the censors.. I intend to move as much of my activity
and potential liability offshore as is practicable.

2009/3/17 Skeeve Stevens <skeeve at eintellego.net>

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/banned-hyperlinks-could-cost-you-11000
-a-day/2009/03/17/1237054787635.html

Most people would have read about the above link.

I think it is stupid, and I'd like to know where they get off stopping
people seeing something about anti-abortion, but... that aside.

My question is... the ACMA.... who do they have authority over?

Options:

*	Websites hosted in Australia
*	Websites hosted under .au domains
*	Australian citizens
*	Anyone they goddamn please

Do they have any authority of a .au website hosted in the US?  Or if it's
run by an Aussie, does it not matter?

Shouldn't they be going after the website owner (Whirlpool) as opposed to
the host? (Bulletproof)

This is concerning and I have people asking questions, and I would like to
inform them appropriately.

This is my first thought about this, and I haven't googled, searched their
website or anything, because I am interested in the opinions of others here
as well.

...Skeeve

--

Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director

eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists

skeeve at eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net <http://www.eintellego.net/> 

Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954

Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve

--

NOC, NOC, who's there?

Disclaimer: Limits of Liability and Disclaimer: This message is for the
named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or
legally privileged information. You must not, directly or indirectly, use,
disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not
the intended recipient. eintellego Pty Ltd and each legal entity in the
Tefilah Pty Ltd group of companies reserve the right to monitor all e-mail
communications through its networks.  Any views expressed in this message
are those of the individual sender, except where the message states
otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them to be the views of any
such entity. Any reference to costs, fee quotations, contractual
transactions and variations to contract terms is subject to separate
confirmation in writing signed by an authorised representative of
eintellego. Whilst all efforts are made to safeguard inbound and outbound
e-mails, we cannot guarantee that attachments are virus-free or compatible
with your systems and do not accept any liability in respect of viruses or
computer problems experienced.

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-- 
Grahame Lynch
Ph/SMS: +668 1701 7664
Skype: grahame.lynch
URL: www.commsday.com

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