[AusNOG] Carrier Independent Peering Exchange

[Mark Smith]

Hi Bevan,

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 00:29:05 +1000
"Bevan Slattery" <Bevan.Slattery at staff.pipenetworks.com> wrote:

> Skeeve,
> 
> If people are worried about PIPE peering in light of all that has been
> said, then there's not much I can say beyond that other than the proof
> will be in the pudding.
> 

Unfortunately I think people aren't worried about the probable case,
people could be worried about the worst case. The worst case is that
you leave or are made redundant because you're now an employee, and your
principles aren't the ones people are able to rely on anymore.

TPG do have a commercial incentive to stop their competitors peering
using their PIPE peering infrastructure, so it's fundamentally a
question of whether TPG choose to take advantage of it or not. The
decision PIPE's customers have to make is whether that's an acceptable
risk or not, and if not, do they need to proactively put in place
contingencies before it might become an issue, rather than reactively,
which would usually be at much shorter notice and would likely to be
more expensive.

I've seen the same parent company both compete with and yet provide
services to the same set of customers, via different corporate
structures, and they've been doing that for more than a decade without
any major issues. Hopefully the TPG/PIPE thing would work out that way.
OTOH though, I think the fairly recent AAPT co-lo example also provides
a converse example.


Regards,
Mark.

> [b]
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Skeeve Stevens [mailto:Skeeve at eintellego.net] 
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 December 2009 6:20 PM
> > To: Bevan Slattery; ausnog at ausnog.net
> > Subject: RE: Carrier Independent Peering Exchange
> > 
> > I'd like to thank Bevan for his ongoing commitment to the 
> > industry - and putting his reputation on the line.  That is a 
> > significant thing in this game - if your reputation means 
> > much to you - which to you I think it does very much.
> > 
> > Thing is, while people love you Bevan, they don't 
> > trust/like/respect TPG much at all.  Question is, what can 
> > you do other than what you've said here that will have people 
> > worrying less?
> > 
> > Maybe move Pipe peering to a separate entity with everyone 
> > being an owner or something? I am not sure how much % of 
> > Pipes overall revenue the Peering product is... maybe it is 
> > significant, but if it isn't, maybe they'd entertain 
> > divesting itself of it will make it more attractive?  It 
> > certainly won't be worth much if other MLPA/BPA 
> > infrastructures pop up and gain popularity.
> > 
> > Just tossing around ideas.  Other ideas on how Bevan/Pipe can 
> > keep its peering product trusted?
> > 
> > --
> > Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director
> > eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists 
> > skeeve at eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net
> > Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954 Cell +61 (0)414 
> > 753 383 / skype://skeeve www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; 
> > facebook.com/eintellego
> > --
> > NOC, NOC, who's there?
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog- 
> > > bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Bevan Slattery
> > > Sent: Thursday, 17 December 2009 12:19 PM
> > > To: ausnog at ausnog.net
> > > Subject: [AusNOG] Carrier Independent Peering Exchange
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Boo hiss to doing anything in an AAPT operated/owned DC.
> > > 
> > > And I think that's the cautionary tale that should be 
> > remembered and 
> > > one that PIPE brought to flashpoint.  PIPE had a torrid 
> > time when the 
> > > muppets in control of AAPT at the time decided to stop 
> > 'peering' and 
> > > competitive carriers from interconnecting/offering services 
> > in their 
> > > facilities.  We were happy to stay in their facilities, bring 
> > > customers to them (via our DCI and dark fibre circuits) and 
> > offer our 
> > > IX services within their facilities.  AAPT in their ultimate wisdom 
> > > turned against the industry and decided that a colo 
> > customer can only 
> > > buy their services yada-yada-yada.  All of us were happy to 
> > pay to be 
> > > in their DC's as long as they were reasonable, but of course, they 
> > > were unreasonable.
> > > 
> > > Within 6 months everyone deserted the facilities and AAPT 
> > found that 
> > > they no longer had commercial relationships with much of 
> > the industry 
> > > and even worse, had to establish PoP's in numerous datacentres to 
> > > service existing customers.  If it weren't for AAPT's 
> > acquisition of 
> > > Powertel, AAPT Wholesale, in my opinion, would have 
> > withered and died.
> > > A few years later, AAPT/Powertel have learnt their lessons and now 
> > > offers some excellent wholesale services, particularly in the L2 
> > > product suite.  Mind you they still have not been able to re-engage 
> > > with a number of major accounts that were torched.
> > > 
> > > I can say that the management of PIPE and TPG are acutely 
> > aware of the 
> > > history of acquisitions and the lessons that have been 
> > learnt.  Should 
> > > the deal proceed, you will not find a reduction in 
> > offerings or value, 
> > > but an increase.  PIPE peering, DCI/Ethernet, colo are 
> > expected to be 
> > > expanded.  PIPE peering ain't going anywhere, anytime soon.
> > > 
> > > I'm staking my reputation on it.
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > 
> > > [b]
> > > 
> > > PS: PIPE will again be sponsoring Ausnog, Commsday etc. etc...
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > AusNOG mailing list
> > > AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> > 
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