[AusNOG] "Telstra" scammers still at it...

Sun Mar 13 11:28:23 AEDT 2022

Correct me if I am wrong here, but these scammers and the copious amounts
of these calls only exist because the ones supplying them the wholesale
termination, choose not to terminate their services, I do know for a fact
they do get reported when one is able to track down the origination owner.

If anything, there needs to be better reporting mechanisms on identifying
the suppliers (Based on number ownership) and having the ability to notify
them and report this breach of the ACT, and to also block the entire number
block that these scammers are using, including the virtual mobile numbers
they are using now instead of FNN's

This all comes down to responsibility and respect for the market,
which clearly there is little of these days because it is all about the
revenue, and scam calls are increasing in significant numbers, averaging
8-10 a day from these asshats is becoming unbearable, and my number
blocking list on my mobile has become substantially long. I know for a fact
so has many others who use either Apple or Samsung inbuilt systems to do
spam identification are the same.

Cut their revenue by blocking them at the carrier/wholesale level, and all
of a sudden, they disappear, once the money is no longer there, then people
wisen up because it would have an effect on the legitimate side of their
business no doubt.

Personal Opinion of course :)

Cheers,

David Trad

On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 8:19 PM Bradley Amm <brad at bradleyamm.com> wrote:

> Telstra are clinging onto zones and exchange areas. Dad moved across the
> road. Was with Telstra and phone was provided on the nbn modem via voip.
> Wouldn’t let him keep the number as he was moving to a different exchange
> area.
>
> Moved my iiNet connection few years ago. They didn’t care what exchange
> zone the SIP number was in. Was fine.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net> on behalf of Chad Kelly <
> chad at cpkws.com.au>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 12, 2022 1:05:20 PM
> *To:* Rob Thomas <xrobau at gmail.com>; Sean Agius (Personal) <
> sean at agius.id.au>
> *Cc:* AusNOG Mailing List <ausnog at ausnog.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] "Telstra" scammers still at it...
>
>
> Hi Ahh so its basically DMark or Dkim but for phone numbers.
>
> It actually looks like a good system.
>
> If a few major providers rolled this out in Australia Telstra would
> eventually be forced to.
>
> While they are at it Telstra could get rid of zones for phone numbers as
> well it’s Voip so its all internet based now a days anyway so you should be
> able to move numbers more easily oh and they should let you split numbers
> from a 100 range as well, like the majority of providers.
>
> Well they might still have some legacy PSTN services in regional areas but
> most of those have been switched.
>
> Regards Chad.
>
>
>
> Chad Kelly
>
> Manager
>
> CPK Web Services
>
> Phone 03 52730246
>
> Web https://www.cpkws.com.au
>
>
>
> *From:* Rob Thomas <xrobau at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, 12 March 2022 1:04 PM
> *To:* Sean Agius (Personal) <sean at agius.id.au>
> *Cc:* Nathan Brookfield <Nathan.Brookfield at iperium.com.au>; Chad Kelly <
> chad at cpkws.com.au>; AusNOG Mailing List <ausnog at ausnog.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] "Telstra" scammers still at it...
>
>
>
> This is TRIVIALLY solvable by Australia implementing SHAKEN/STIR, which is
> a very simple JWT based assertion of Caller.
>
>
>
> https://stir.tel has all the info.
>
>
>
> In fact, I have a POC Certificate Authority in place for Australia, and
> written most of the code for a complete attestation and verification
> system, which is, or soon will be, open sourced as the reference code for
> the standard.
>
>
>
> Sadly, Telstra would have to move into the 2000s and stop requiring
> ISDN/SS7 for peering, and move to SIP, like the rest of the world.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022, 9:00 am Sean Agius (Personal), <sean at agius.id.au>
> wrote:
>
> The proposed implementation by Telstra is flawed. For example, PBX systems
> that use any type of forward (Sim ring/Unconditional etc.), will be
> affected by the dropping of that call (If the call forward target is on the
> Telstra network); unless the forwarded call CLI is presented as Calling
> Party B. A lot of our clients prefer to know who is calling them, rather
> than their own business DID. If authorisation was done on PAI, then
> Diversion, then Calling Number, then there is enough data to backtrack to
> the root network(s) that allowed the spam/scam call to take place.
>
> As stated, there will be a general consensus to avoid Telstra if/when this
> gets implemented and starts affecting legitimate use case scenarios.
>
> Regards, Sean.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net> On Behalf Of Nathan Brookfield
> Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2022 8:08 PM
> To: Chad Kelly <chad at cpkws.com.au>
> Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] "Telstra" scammers still at it...
>
> Nope it won’t and that’s not what it’s doing, it’s the opposite…. You can
> use Telstra CLI’s on other networks without an issue :(
>
> It’s going to cause a massive cluster that’s for sure but I don’t believe
> it will solve much SPAM calling.
>
> They’ll just avoid Telstra :(
>
> On 9 Mar 2022, at 19:48, Chad Kelly <chad at cpkws.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hi Just on this, the Telstra preventing CLIRs I am pretty sure this will
> prevent the scammers from using any Telstra numbers.
> From what I understand the changes will prevent the use of Telstra numbers
> being used as caller IDs from outside of their network, previously the
> scammers have been able to use random mobile numbers they have found on the
> internet as the caller ID this will no longer be permitted on the network
> level once these changes go through.
> I understand from an ISP point of view that the only exception to this
> will be approved port out requests where Telstra has signed paperwork from
> the gaining  ISP to say the customer has approved to port their number out.
> From how I understand this is being rolled out all other requests to make
> outbound calls from random Telstra numbers will be blocked at the network
> level.
> Unless the number is on a Telstra account.
> This should help significantly with cutting down the amount of scam calls.
>
> Regards Chad.
>
> From: Shaun Deans <shaun at kadeo.com.au>
> To: Rob Thomas <xrobau at gmail.com>
> Cc: "<ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] "Telstra" scammers still at it...
> Message-ID:
>    <CA+kVNc811wfDMqREiwoK+ZkZnqMoQgNnkwbeO4n6_23v_bhw0Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Random thought experiment... as both someone who's worked in carrier
> networks and in software what ponders me is...
>
> If my Google Phone app can detect a scammer and tell me before I answer
> why can't a carrier (source or destination) ?
>
> I understand Google has a massive dataset which the humans feed (for
> "free") every day. But I'm sure they just live to offer a service to
> carrier's for 'extreme scammers' back to carrier's. I understand the CLIR
> is faked but logs would show it originating.
>
> But as someone else said the scammers' will still pay for the calls. ?
>
> The current projects stopping of overstamping CLIRs outside the network
> coming back inbound will help immensely.
>
> As someone with experience on both sides (Net & Dev) I'd love to geek out
> pro-bono on a project.
>
> That said I'm sure Telstra has smarter gals & guys than me trying to crack
> the code.
>
> Just 2c
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