[AusNOG] "Telstra" scammers still at it...

Sat Mar 12 15:01:00 AEDT 2022

>> 
>> This is TRIVIALLY solvable by Australia implementing SHAKEN/STIR, which is a
very simple JWT based assertion of Caller.
>>

** Mic Drop **

---

Won't take long and T will be the only network left with 'their way' anyway.
I've seen it happen in so many other verticals.

With the lack of physical PSTN a 'Phone Number (eg 0412341234)' will be less
required as SIP already has to address built-in with SIP URI's.
They only use numbers before the @ because that's what the 'old world used'. 
An email is a valid SIP URI with the right server side config.

Regular Sally Smith won't care how their phone / tablet / toaster connects to
their mate as long as they can thing the thing on their phone / tablet / toaster
and their mate picks up and they cant chat about going for a burger!

The fact they doesn't get SPAM calls will only be a bonus (and a product
differentiation between T and New Age Inc)

---

Rob:

As previously mentioned I'd love to assist with Dev if you are open to it
Feel free to ping me the repo off list.

[data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAP///wAAACwAAAAAAQABAAACAkQBADs=3D]
On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 1:05 PM Rob Thomas <xrobau at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is TRIVIALLY solvable by Australia implementing SHAKEN/STIR, which is a
> very simple JWT based assertion of Caller.
> 
> 
> https://stir.tel [https://stir.tel] has all the info.
> 
> 
> In fact, I have a POC Certificate Authority in place for Australia, and
> written most of the code for a complete attestation and verification system,
> which is, or soon will be, open sourced as the reference code for the
> standard.
> 
> 
> Sadly, Telstra would have to move into the 2000s and stop requiring ISDN/SS7
> for peering, and move to SIP, like the rest of the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022, 9:00 am Sean Agius (Personal), <sean at agius.id.au
> [sean at agius.id.au]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > The proposed implementation by Telstra is flawed. For example, PBX systems
> > that use any type of forward (Sim ring/Unconditional etc.), will be affected
> > by the dropping of that call (If the call forward target is on the Telstra
> > network); unless the forwarded call CLI is presented as Calling Party B. A
> > lot of our clients prefer to know who is calling them, rather than their own
> > business DID. If authorisation was done on PAI, then Diversion, then Calling
> > Number, then there is enough data to backtrack to the root network(s) that
> > allowed the spam/scam call to take place.
> > 
> > As stated, there will be a general consensus to avoid Telstra if/when this
> > gets implemented and starts affecting legitimate use case scenarios.
> > 
> > Regards, Sean.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net [ausnog-bounces at ausnog.net]> On
> > Behalf Of Nathan Brookfield
> > Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2022 8:08 PM
> > To: Chad Kelly <chad at cpkws.com.au [chad at cpkws.com.au]>
> > Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net [ausnog at ausnog.net]
> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] "Telstra" scammers still at it...
> > 
> > Nope it won’t and that’s not what it’s doing, it’s the opposite…. You can
> > use Telstra CLI’s on other networks without an issue :(
> > 
> > It’s going to cause a massive cluster that’s for sure but I don’t believe it
> > will solve much SPAM calling.
> > 
> > They’ll just avoid Telstra :(
> > 
> > On 9 Mar 2022, at 19:48, Chad Kelly <chad at cpkws.com.au [chad at cpkws.com.au]>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Just on this, the Telstra preventing CLIRs I am pretty sure this will
> > prevent the scammers from using any Telstra numbers.
> > From what I understand the changes will prevent the use of Telstra numbers
> > being used as caller IDs from outside of their network, previously the
> > scammers have been able to use random mobile numbers they have found on the
> > internet as the caller ID this will no longer be permitted on the network
> > level once these changes go through.
> > I understand from an ISP point of view that the only exception to this will
> > be approved port out requests where Telstra has signed paperwork from the
> > gaining  ISP to say the customer has approved to port their number out.
> > From how I understand this is being rolled out all other requests to make
> > outbound calls from random Telstra numbers will be blocked at the network
> > level.
> > Unless the number is on a Telstra account.
> > This should help significantly with cutting down the amount of scam calls.
> > 
> > Regards Chad.
> > 
> > From: Shaun Deans <shaun at kadeo.com.au [shaun at kadeo.com.au]>
> > To: Rob Thomas <xrobau at gmail.com [xrobau at gmail.com]>
> > Cc: "<ausnog at lists.ausnog.net [ausnog at lists.ausnog.net]>"
> > <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net [ausnog at lists.ausnog.net]>
> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] "Telstra" scammers still at it...
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CA+kVNc811wfDMqREiwoK+ZkZnqMoQgNnkwbeO4n6_23v_bhw0Q at mail.gmail.com
> > [CA%2BkVNc811wfDMqREiwoK%2BZkZnqMoQgNnkwbeO4n6_23v_bhw0Q at mail.gmail.com]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > 
> > Random thought experiment... as both someone who's worked in carrier
> > networks and in software what ponders me is...
> > 
> > If my Google Phone app can detect a scammer and tell me before I answer why
> > can't a carrier (source or destination) ?
> > 
> > I understand Google has a massive dataset which the humans feed (for
> > "free") every day. But I'm sure they just live to offer a service to
> > carrier's for 'extreme scammers' back to carrier's. I understand the CLIR is
> > faked but logs would show it originating.
> > 
> > But as someone else said the scammers' will still pay for the calls. ?
> > 
> > The current projects stopping of overstamping CLIRs outside the network
> > coming back inbound will help immensely.
> > 
> > As someone with experience on both sides (Net & Dev) I'd love to geek out
> > pro-bono on a project.
> > 
> > That said I'm sure Telstra has smarter gals & guys than me trying to crack
> > the code.
> > 
> > Just 2c
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