[AusNOG] Are domain name server pointers reliant on registrar name server?

Peter Fern ausnog at 0xc0dedbad.com
Mon Oct 29 15:05:41 EST 2018


This is indeed a confusing response.

Why does your nameserver have records for a domain it does not host?  If 
a user has delegated their DNS away to some other nameservers, you 
should not be serving any records from your nameservers, so the 
described scenario should never happen. Sounds like a problem for 
VentraIP to fix.

On 29/10/18 2:38 pm, Bradley Silverman wrote:
> Hi Matt,
>
> To answer your specific question, no they wouldn't.
>
> BUT there is an exception:
>
> If your site was hosting with us it does add one small layer of 
> complexity, which often trips people up.
> Servers are very arrogant, and assume they are the be all and end all. 
> So for instance, let's say you are using Cloudflare as your 
> Nameservers for example.com.au <http://example.com.au>, and your 
> domain is with Synergy Wholesale.
>
> Synergy Wholesale has the nameservers:
> ns1.cloudflare.com <http://ns1.cloudflare.com> (I realize that is wrong)
> ns2.cloudflare.com <http://ns2.cloudflare.com>
>
> Cloudflare has the same nameservers plus:
> An A record pointing to the VentraIP Server you are on 
> (s111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au 
> <http://s111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au>)
> A MX record pointing to Outlook 365 for your email
>
> VentraIP on S111.syd2 has the records:
> An A record pointing to itself
> A MX Record pointing to itself (the default for web hosting generally 
> speaking).
>
> In this circumstance, S111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au 
> <http://S111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au> will assume it is the DNS 
> host. The issue comes when your website has something like a contact 
> form, or another user that uses VentraIP (and is on that server) tries 
> to send an email, it will try to deliver locally.
> This is where Remote MX (in cPanel) comes into play, it tells 
> S111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au 
> <http://S111.syd2.hostingplatform.net.au> that it /isn't/ the email 
> host, and to send the email out into the world to find it's own way.
>
> The other time this will get messy is if you have a sub domain defined 
> on S111.syd2 for test.example.com.au <http://test.example.com.au> and 
> also have an A record defined at Cloudflare pointing off to 
> otherhostingcompany.com <http://otherhostingcompany.com>, the rest of 
> the world will go to otherhostingcompany.com 
> <http://otherhostingcompany.com> for the domain test.example.com.au 
> <http://test.example.com.au>, but s111.syd2 will look at it's own 
> subdomain for the site, only important in cases where your website at 
> example.com.au <http://example.com.au> actually looks at 
> test.example.com.au <http://test.example.com.au>.
>
> I hope that answers it and doesn't make it more confusing for you!
>
> VentraIP Australia logo 	
>
> *Bradley Silverman
> *Technical Operations \\ VentraIP Australia
> *M: *+61 418 641 103 | *P:* +61 3 9013 8464 | ventraip.com.au 
> <https://ventraip.com.au/>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 11:41 AM Matt Selbst <matt.j.selbst at gmail.com 
> <mailto:matt.j.selbst at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hey Bradley,
>
>     Thanks for your answer. So assuming I'm not using you for DNS
>     hosting (e.g. using a third party like CloudFlare or AWS Route53)
>     then would your name servers ever be involved in DNS queries for
>     my domain?
>
>     -Matt
>
>     On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 10:13 AM Bradley Silverman
>     <bsilverman at staff.ventraip.com
>     <mailto:bsilverman at staff.ventraip.com>> wrote:
>
>         Hi Matt,
>
>         A lot of confusing answers in here, even to me and this is my
>         job to understand them.
>
>         To answer your exact question without filler information:
>         Your registrar (Synergy Wholesale, TPP Wholesale, NetRegistry)
>         need to have the Nameserver records (ns1.server.net
>         <http://ns1.server.net> and ns2.server.net
>         <http://ns2.server.net>) for the domain (Example.com.au
>         <http://Example.com.au>).
>         Then your actual nameservers (ns1.server.net
>         <http://ns1.server.net> and ns2.server.net
>         <http://ns2.server.net>) actually require the exact same
>         nameserver records. Trust me, I have seen things go awry when
>         this isn't the case.
>
>         While you are technically reliant on the root, auDA, and
>         Affilias, all their job is to get someones request to the
>         .com.au namespace TO the actual .com.au domains, and not
>         something you ever have to worry about.
>
>         All you need to do is make sure both your registrar and your
>         nameservers point to your nameservers. Does that make sense?
>         VentraIP Australia logo 	
>
>         *Bradley Silverman
>         *Technical Operations \\ VentraIP Australia
>         *M: *+61 418 641 103 | *P:* +61 3 9013 8464 | ventraip.com.au
>         <https://ventraip.com.au/>
>
>
>
>         On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 6:16 AM Matt Selbst
>         <matt.j.selbst at gmail.com <mailto:matt.j.selbst at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             Right, so for the sake of clarity as I understand it from
>             the responses - I'm reliant on root, auDA and Afilias name
>             servers but NOT my registrar e.g. Synergy Wholesale, TPP
>             Wholesale, NetRegistry etc....
>
>             On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 5:59 AM Peter Fern
>             <ausnog at 0xc0dedbad.com <mailto:ausnog at 0xc0dedbad.com>> wrote:
>
>                 On 28/10/18 11:58 pm, Chad Kelly wrote:
>                 > On 10/28/2018 11:10 PM,
>                 ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net
>                 <mailto:ausnog-request at lists.ausnog.net> wrote:
>                 >
>                 >> The original post was asking if the registrar is
>                 relied upon here
>                 >> (and the answer is no).
>                 > But the nameservers themselves still need to be
>                 listed at the
>                 > registrar level so that they can be found on the
>                 public internet.
>                 > Otherwise you run into issues with dns lookups and
>                 them not being able
>                 > to resolve your dns correctly.
>                 > They call this having registry hosts.
>                 >
>
>                 registrar != registry
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