[AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.

Wed Oct 3 14:18:41 EST 2018

Very well said!
My personal views on the matter are that while quotas are often implemented
with the best of intentions, the whole thing can actually backfire rather
badly. I've seen this happen in non-tech sectors with similar imbalances
where quotas or top level representation was mandated above the actual
merit of the candidates, and the result was that some very politically
ambitious but unfortunately inexperienced in the industry field candidates
were appointed. This came about in a number of ways, those being where
existing representatives brought in a pawn to push their agenda, or where
the appointed person was so poor at the actual job required of them that it
ended up setting back the cause for equality.
The former, where a pawn was brought in was particularly nasty, as it ended
up alienating other much more suitable candidates (of the same gender)
because the primary selection criteria were not merit based and were more
about how easily the politics could be manipulated.

IT and technology in general is one of those industries where by and large
your physical attributes, race and the nature of your reproductive organs
(and what you do with them) is entirely irrelevant to your ability to do
the job.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 1:58 PM Karen Hargreave <karen at iamunique.net.au>
wrote:

> So, someone made reference to the lack of females on the board...
>
> Can we take a moment and have a look at something? Apart from myself (who
> identifies as 'one of the guys' most of the time) how many female members
> are there? If you were to consider the topic being discussed, I would have
> thought that passionate females on this list would probably want to speak
> up. It is obviously clear that there are some very supportive males out
> there which is awesome to see. So what is the ratio of males to females in
> this situation?
>
> I remember a teacher one saying to my class, the worst thing you can be in
> Australia if you are looking for work is a white Australian male because
> you have the quota numbers stacked against you. I too am a believer that
> what we get should be based on merit and not on some quota system. Yes,
> maybe look at the percentages, if the industry is heavily biased one way
> over another, then maybe think about ways to market to appeal to other
> groups, but keep it merit based. Anything else cheapens the achievements of
> everyone else concerned.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 3 Oct 2018, at 1:08 pm, dusty <dusty.au at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> “Merit-based selection”
> False equivalences
> #metoo denialism (ohnoes won’t someone think of the poor menfolk??)
> “Virtue signalling”
>
> Anyone else hit redpill bingo from this email alone?
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 15:58, James Troy <
> james.troy at agilityapplications.com> wrote:
>
>> Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information
>> that is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching
>> this thread with a particular keen interest.
>>
>>
>>
>> Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender
>> diversity’ was going to get pushed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable.
>> Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you
>> start to include someone in something like a board selection based solely
>> on their genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy
>> subscribe to the idea of the ‘best person for the job’
>>
>>
>>
>> If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are
>> all selected on their merits.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an
>> entirely different can. Ie: is there someone of
>> Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be
>> racist?
>>
>>
>>
>> Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go
>> to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of
>> race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender,
>> percentages, inclusion policies is _*not*_ the way to get the
>> recognition that some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female
>> dominated industry (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be
>> selected for something like this based on my work ethics, input, and
>> recognition – not simply to be the token male.
>>
>>
>>
>> We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our
>> colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that
>> if an accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it
>> should also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo
>> being used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a
>> shread of proof.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that
>> proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was
>> suggested at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the **Alleged**
>> (I use this term deliberately as until it is proof we have due process –
>> innocent until PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that
>> are before the courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be
>> established and only then actioned upon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all…
>>
>>
>>
>> James Troy
>>
>> Senior Systems Administration
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net> *On Behalf Of *dusty
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM
>> *To:* Matthew Young <matt at mattyoung.net.au>
>> *Cc:* ausnog at ausnog.net List <ausnog at ausnog.net>
>>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young <matt at mattyoung.net.au> wrote:
>>
>> “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on
>> the Ausnog board.”
>>
>> People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their
>> gender.
>>
>>
>>
>> Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll
>> show you a deluded patriarchal fool.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul
>> Wilkins
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM
>> *To:* ausnog at ausnog.net List <ausnog at ausnog.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Seems you've never been to a meeting."
>>
>>
>>
>> The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>> Paul Wilkins
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point.
>> >
>> > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on
>> the Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and
>> they're all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing.
>> >
>>
>> Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing
>> session.
>>
>>
>>
>> > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise
>> to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club.
>> >
>> > Kind regards
>> >
>> > Paul Wilkins
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes <david at hughes.com.au> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our
>> attention.
>> >>
>> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature
>> very seriously.  We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an
>> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of
>> all parties.  If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance
>> to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further.
>> >>
>> >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events
>> have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and
>> supported.  We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other
>> organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable
>> for AusNOG events and mailing lists.
>> >>
>> >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not
>> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry.  We
>> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader
>> solution.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board
>> >> ...
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
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