[AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.

Wed Oct 3 13:13:02 EST 2018

can we all please fork these discussions into a separate thread
or list?

regardless of validity or virtue or other discussions, there ARE
a few of us folk that still want to use this list for operational
purposes.

On October 3, 2018 at 1:09 PM, dusty (dusty.au at gmail.com) wrote:

“Merit-based selection”
False equivalences
#metoo denialism (ohnoes won’t someone think of the poor
menfolk??)
“Virtue signalling”

Anyone else hit redpill bingo from this email alone?

On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 15:58, James Troy
<james.troy at agilityapplications.com> wrote:
Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the
information that is often posted here to be quite valuable; I
have also been watching this thread with a particular keen
interest.

Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and
‘gender diversity’ was going to get pushed.

Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not
acceptable. Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males;
however to second you start to include someone in something like
a board selection based solely on their genitalia is the second
you loose any credibility. I wholy subscribe to the idea of the
‘best person for the job’

If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine,
they are all selected on their merits.

Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an
entirely different can. Ie: is there someone of
Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow
wouldn’t that be racist?

Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable.

I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long
way to go to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless
of race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on
gender, percentages, inclusion policies is _not_ the way to get
the recognition that some hard-working people deserve. If I
worked in a female dominated industry (teaching, midwifery,
childcare, etc) I would want to be selected for something like
this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – not simply
to be the token male.

We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support
our colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I
also agree that if an accusation is made, and reported to the
‘other company’ then it should also be accompanied with proof –
too often we are seeing the #MeToo being used as a weapon to
destroy people – predominately men – without a shread of proof.

I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum
for that proof and that is best handled between the direct
parties – it was suggested at the CEO level – this protects the
victim, the *Alleged* (I use this term deliberately as until it
is proof we have due process – innocent until PROVEN guilty –
same as the media reporting on items that are before the courts.)
aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only
then actioned upon.

Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all…

James Troy

Senior Systems Administration

From: AusNOG <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net> On Behalf Of dusty
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM
To: Matthew Young <matt at mattyoung.net.au>
Cc: ausnog at ausnog.net List <ausnog at ausnog.net>

Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.

On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young
<matt at mattyoung.net.au> wrote:
“While we're at it though, there needs to be female
representation on the Ausnog board.”
People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on
their gender.

Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and
I’ll show you a deluded patriarchal fool.

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf
Of Paul Wilkins
Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM
To: ausnog at ausnog.net List <ausnog at ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.

"Seems you've never been to a meeting."

The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated.

Kind regards

Paul Wilkins

On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins
<paulwilkins369 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good
point.
>
> While we're at it though, there needs to be female
representation on the Ausnog board. I see where there's 5
directors been appointed, and they're all men. I'm wondering who
is doing the appointing.
>

Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the
closing session.

> That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard
gives rise to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a
boy's club.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Paul Wilkins
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes <david at hughes.com.au>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing
it to our attention.
>>
>> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this
nature very seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those
concerned in an attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining
the confidentiality of all parties. If there are any actionable
details we will offer assistance to the party involved if they
wish to escalate the matter further.
>>
>> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our
events have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to
feel safe and supported. We have commenced a review of policies
and processes from other organisations and will work with our
solicitors to draft a policy suitable for AusNOG events and
mailing lists.
>>
>> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature
is not acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in
our industry. We will attempt to engage the leaders of our
industry to push for a broader solution.
>>
>>
>>
>> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board
>> ...
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
_______________________________________________
AusNOG mailing list
AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
_______________________________________________
AusNOG mailing list
AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/20181003/b2214979/attachment.html>