[AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?

Tue Sep 13 18:21:23 EST 2016

There was an interesting presentation at a recent NANOG about avoiding
nation state surveillance by using relays to force traffic along certain
paths.  It might give you some ideas :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_dQQ0BP0-s

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 at 16:13 Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the advice, much appreciated – looking into it now.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Clay
>
>
>
> *From:* korensky at gmail.com [mailto:korensky at gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *McDonald
> Richards
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 13 September 2016 4:10 PM
> *To:* Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com>
> *Cc:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?
>
>
>
> Normally available capacity is a real problem on SMW3 so providers will
> only selectively route things that way. I'd recommend you try and see if
> AWS Singapore or India are taking that path and if so, try and VPN via them
> to hit Israel on a west-bound path.
>
>
>
> Now if only somebody would actually build a new cable on that path instead
> of just talking about it... ;)
>
>
>
> Macca
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 11:05 PM, Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com> wrote:
>
> I understand, but trying to artificially alter my route.  Eg. if I can
> find a VPN provider termination point that is routable via SE-ME-WE3, I
> could then VPN tunnel there and the routing would be calculated from the
> exit of the tunnel (and not the AU origin).
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tin, James [mailto:jtin at akamai.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 13 September 2016 4:02 PM
> *To:* Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com>; Adam Baxter <adam1984 at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Kim Pearce <kim.pearce at gmail.com>; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net; Serto,
> Fernando <fserto at akamai.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?
>
>
>
> As a user on the internet, it’s not really possible to choose which paths
> to take.
> This is done for you with BGP, as as you can obviously see, BGP uses a
> metric of Cost ($$$) rather than throughput, loss or congestion.
>
> So the path it takes will the one with the least cost to each service
> provider.
>
>
>
> J/
>
>
>
> *From: *Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 3:31 PM
> *To: *Adam Baxter <adam1984 at gmail.com>, James Tin <jtin at akamai.com>
> *Cc: *Kim Pearce <kim.pearce at gmail.com>, "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <
> ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>, Fernando Sertp <fserto at akamai.com>
> *Subject: *RE: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?
>
>
>
> It’s just remote desktop to a linux machine for 1 person, so trying to do
> it on the cheap (if it’s possible).
>
>
>
> Does anyone have a list of ISPs in Australia who use SE-ME-WE-3?  That’s
> the path I need, but haven’t been able to hit it using a few looking
> glasses (everything prefers US that I’ve seen – probably cost decision).
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Clay
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Baxter [mailto:adam1984 at gmail.com <adam1984 at gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 13 September 2016 2:57 PM
> *To:* Tin, James <jtin at akamai.com>
> *Cc:* Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com>; Kim Pearce <kim.pearce at gmail.com>;
> ausnog at lists.ausnog.net; Serto, Fernando <fserto at akamai.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?
>
>
>
> Modern RDP can use UDP..
>
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2592687
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__support.microsoft.com_en-2Dus_kb_2592687&d=DQMGaQ&c=96ZbZZcaMF4w0F4jpN6LZg&r=wJDREqbOvAj7uAMLV05riA&m=Ok91FiNbFWtzHoJmc1x9TKZAETJIEiREDq8pI-XybdM&s=e0CE-sf86yGj5gy0pEuciOGFgDzMAsGUPnVwx0INidw&e=>
>
>
>
> On 13 September 2016 at 14:38, Tin, James <jtin at akamai.com> wrote:
>
> Clay, what App or resources are you accessing or providing?
>
> As someone mentioned, if terminal services, you can use VMware’s PCOIP for
> delivery over UDP, this overcomes the TCP inefficiencies but you need a lot
> of bandwidth capacity.
>
>
>
> Depending on your budget there are some solutions to address the poor user
> experience, poor throughput and lack of control over the internet.
>
>
>
> There are some technologies which run some races over diverse paths and
> will map across the internet, then choose the best path based on
> performance, packet loss etc.
>
> There is also wan optimisation such that if you do lose a packet, the
> packet will be rebuilt based upon additional parity bits (Forward Error
> Correction).
>
> Additionally, the traffic can be delivered over the internet using UDP
> instead of TCP, which overcomes the TCP performance problems.
>
> The 3 solutions combined will make a massive difference for performance.
>
>
>
> Riverbed has some of this and uses Sure Route from Akamai Technologies.
>
> Akamai has all 3 capabilities built into IP Accelerator which does FEC,
> Sure Route, delivery over UDP, TCP optimisatation, you access their network
> in the source and destination countries and rely upon their global platform
> for delivery (so any loss is retransmitted locally at each end as a full
> proxy, DSA and their web acceleration products.
>
> Cisco also has something along these lines.
>
> There are also solutions from Silver Peak and Citrix which provide FEC,
> but rely upon BGP.
>
> Some telco’s are going to be offering this as a premium service based on
> Akamai’s technology.
>
>
>
> So depending on your app and your budget, there are a number of ways to
> address this without digging up the earth of deploying your own super
> expensive private link for part of the connectivity.
>
>
>
> J/
>
>
>
> *From: *Clay Quinn <cquinn at mrv.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 2:07 PM
> *To: *Kim Pearce <kim.pearce at gmail.com>, "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <
> ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?
>
>
>
> I knew I could depend on AusNOG to explore every option - thanks :)
>
>
>
> A colleague of mine suggested to VPN to a point half-way along the
> alternate direction (eg India) and see if the connection would be routed
> through Europe from there.  Could reduce the latency significantly, worth a
> shot.  Will let you know if I succeed.
>
>
>
> Also some others suggested to tweak the TCP settings, which I will also
> look into – again, thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Clay
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Kim
> Pearce
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 13 September 2016 2:05 PM
> *To:* ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Best roundtrip latency to Israel?
>
>
>
> And if you drill, it is a 20,000km round trip - ~(10,000km along the chord
> from SYD to TLV)
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org> wrote:
>
>
> In message <
> AM5PR0301MB24814072C2675F44C808F43AD2FE0 at AM5PR0301MB2481.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>,
> Clay Quinn writes:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > An oddball question - is anyone using services over Internet to Israel
> > (VPN etc), and if so what is your round-trip latency?  From a Telstra TID
> > connection I'm getting around 400ms (Sydney, LA, New York, UK, France,
> > Israel).  I'm curious if there's a less-latent path on another
> > provider/route (RDP sessions are painfully slow).
>
> SYD to TLV is 8813 great circle miles (14183km).  This gives a lower
> bound on a terrestrial path unless you start drilling.
>
> > Using 30,000km as an estimate for the fibre distance, that gives a
> > theoretical minimum latency of 300ms (0.5us/km * 30,000km * both
> > directions).  So there's an additional 100ms of overhead there (OEO
> > conversions probably - 30 hops in traceroute).
> >
> > If that's par for the course, I guess WAN acceleration is really the only
> > option - I understand it's a pretty long path.  If anyone has any unique
> > solutions to this problem I'd love to hear it.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Clay
> >
> > Clay Quinn
> > Presales Engineer
> > MRV Communications Pty Ltd.
> > Mobile: +61 427 339 000  | Email: cquinn at mrv.com<mailto:cquinn at mrv.com>
> > Skype: clayquinn | Web: www.mrv.com
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> >
> > [Screen Shot 2016-02-01 at 10.11.23]
> >
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> >
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> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
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