[AusNOG] Aus Industry Congratulations Email

Michael J. Carmody michael at opusv.com.au
Tue Sep 6 17:40:53 EST 2016 

I am aware of the definitions of the act,

For this setup where it seems I may have erred in a strict sense, is that we rolled our DR implementation together and only submitted one request for funding to do a joint implementation across the clients and our own internal requirements.

Probably strictly I should have submitted 5 DRIGP’s for partial amounts, but to be honest I couldn’t be stuffed duplicating the paperwork.

-Michael

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins
Sent: Tuesday, 6 September 2016 1:48 PM
To: <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net> <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Aus Industry Congratulations Email

If you provide a communication service (the strict definition is via electromagnetic waves which encompasses radio, copper and fiber), then you have data retention requirements under the act. In general, if you put an IP on a CE, you have DR requirements.

If you provide a layer 2 service, then you have layer 2 DR requirements. If you provide a layer 3 service, then you have layer 3 DR requirements. So I would venture you both have DR requirements, for the different services you provide.
There's opportunity for hair splitting where the layer 2 service is or isn't a communication service. But if you have your client at one end, and a 3rd party at the other, then they will have layer 2 DR requirements.


I am not a lawyer. this is not expert opinion.

Kind regards
Paul Wilkins

On 6 September 2016 at 01:21, Michael J. Carmody <michael at opusv.com.au<mailto:michael at opusv.com.au>> wrote:
Would love your interpretation of the legal advice we got, but the client in question is a carrier because they run network units across property boundaries. But strictly Layer 2 only.

They use our IP addresses, and our DC routing equipment.

To whom falls the DR obligation?

-Michael



From: Skeeve Stevens [mailto:skeeve+ausnog at eintellegonetworks.com<mailto:skeeve%2Bausnog at eintellegonetworks.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, 6 September 2016 1:16 AM
To: Michael J. Carmody <michael at opusv.com.au<mailto:michael at opusv.com.au>>
Cc: <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>> <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>>

Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Aus Industry Congratulations Email

Hey Michael,

Thank you for responding publicly. Much appreciated.

But, you aren't an ISP by your own explanation.  YOU don't have traffic to intercept. Your clients might, but then they should have made funding requests which you were free to implement - just as we are going to do.

This programme was not for vendors/consulting parties to develop solutions for their customers.

The PWC "Data Retention Grant Allocation Methodology<https://www.ag.gov.au/NationalSecurity/DataRetention/Documents/data-retention-grant-allocation-methodology-report.PDF>" report states in the executive summary:

"The Data Retention Industry Grants Programme (DRIGP) exists to assist eligible telecommunications service providers meet their data retention obligations under the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Amendment (Data Retention) Act 2015."

Not "help others meet their obligations".

I love twisting legalese as much as the next person, but I can't see how you could have justified your funding as a consulting business.

Note.. there is no malice here. You could be awesome guys. But this DRIP Funding has been a ballsup from the start and too many seem to have taken a lot of liberties with their justification for funding.

...Skeeve

Skeeve Stevens - Founder & The Architect - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
Email: skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com<mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com> ; Web: eintellegonetworks.com<http://eintellegonetworks.com/>

Cell +61 (0)414 753 383<tel:%2B61%20%280%29414%20753%20383> ; Skype: skeeve ; LinkedIn: /in/skeeve<http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve> ; Expert360: Profile<https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9> ; Keybase: https://keybase.io/skeeve

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:27 AM, Michael J. Carmody <michael at opusv.com.au<mailto:michael at opusv.com.au>> wrote:
First Batter Up!

“You don't seem to be an ISP. Please explain”

We consult and run the infrastructure for several ISP/CSP and Carrier licensed clients. But we don’t advertise that and happy to just get our stuff done without fuss. Costing is basically storage SAN, plus one server plus direct labour implementation costs, a significant portion of which have already been occurred out of our cash flow to our own detriment.

-Michael


From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Skeeve Stevens
Sent: Monday, 5 September 2016 11:33 PM
To: <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>> <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Aus Industry Congratulations Email

All,

The list: https://www.ag.gov.au/NationalSecurity/DataRetention/Documents/DRIGP-recipients.pdf

I am absolutely stunned by this list and how much people asked for - and got.

Sure, there are people who needed the money to comply, but I think a lot of people are taking advantage of the system and should be ashamed of themselves for how much they asked for.

Yes, the government did a shit job, but this is community money - needed for us to comply with a stupid law. Not a slush fund for people to build up their business.

Universities - I don't understand. System Integrators - bullshit. VoIP providers, you are are already logging call details - why do most of you need anything?
If everyone IT integrator in the country claimed, we'd have over 2k-3k applicants and no one getting much at all.

I think a lot of people are buying new networking equipment with these funds. I am not sure the fund was designed to build the networks of ISPs.

Some of the massive requests are astounding and begs the question "WHAT are people buying with it?"

I think the AG make all the applications public since they've made the result public. We need context to some of these extremely excessive allocations.

There is no jealousy here. There is a dozen of my customers on the list, but all mostly realistic.

Those that say we should just move on have no respect for the stewardship of these resources.

Bring on the flames.

---

Going through the list (Never heard of many of them):

- Ace - 294k - You are a small regional ISP... 294k?! C'mon, you need to justify it.

- Amaysim - 69k - You are a big phone reseller - is this all you need? #respect

- APN - 373k - Now Activ8me?  Regional ISP. You need to justify it.

- Bluenet - Aren't you just a VISP off RealWorld? 30k for what? (See below)

- Broadband Solutions. Guys, Why 2.2million. You REALLY need to justify that. Exetel, BigAir, M2, Vocus are all way less. Please explain

- BT - 4 applications? Really? Total $376k+ - Justify it.

- CipherTel - Regional and Remote WA. 439k... Justify it.

- Cirrus Communications - 18k. Your network is massive. Is that all you really need? If so.. #respect

- Cloud Comm - Who are you? 236k

- Comscentre - 840k... C'mon really?  Justify it.

- Connectivity IT - 244k. Please Justify it Tom.

- CountryTell - 180k. Curious... seems a lot for a regional ISP. Please explain

- Curtin University - 368k... I don't understand.

- Easyweb Digital - 404k. For what? Your website doesn't even say ISP, and WiFi doesn't count. Please explain.

- Firenet - 169k - I think you are going to need to explain this.

- First Focus - 153k - But it doesn't even look like you are an ISP?  Please explain.

- Frontier Networks - 301k - It doesn't look like you'd need this much.. Please explain

- GoPC - 150k. Graeme? I don't get it. You will need to explain this. As far as I know, you are not an ISP.

- Griffith Uni - 719k. Another Uni...

- Interactive Gateway - Who? You look like an integrator, not an ISP. Please explain.

- IP Voice & Data / Vonex - 290k. You are mostly voice. Does it really cost this much to log call data which you should already do?

- M2 - 1.6M - OK you are huge, but aren't you part of Vocus now? Surely you can use the same systems

- Macquarie Telecom - A lot less than I would have expected from someone of your size. #respect

- Message4U - 1.2m - Ok, so you do a lot of texts... but so what? Please explain

- MikeIT / OpusV - 106k - You don't seem to be an ISP. Please explain

- Mobilizer - 89k. Total bullshit. Anyone who has ever met Damon knows this is a crock.

- MyNetfone - 3m. You guys are massive in voice. But 3 million?

- Novatel - 698k - Baby ISP with 1 or 2 routers... Does not justify this much. Please explain.

- Origin Net - 249k - Seems excessive.. please explain

- Pivotel - 336k - You do Satellite services? That is a lot. Please explain

- Professional Data Kinetics - 352k. You're based in Wagga doing NBN. This is a lot. Please explain.

- Radcomp / ITAUS / ITNQ - 472k. Who? Please explain

- RCOM / RNAS. 316k. Who are you?  Please explain

- Real World - 787k/912k. Really Andrew? 2 piles of cash? You couldn't use the same technology?  It is a hell of a lot of money for a network like yours in comparison to many people out there. 1.7 million dollars. Almost as much as Vocus. More than BigAir, 3 x Macquarie and MORE than TPG. You need to seriously explain yourself here.

- RMIT - 680k. Uni again

- SIS Group - 191k. Luke? Seems like a lot. Please explain.

- Spirit Telecom - 187k. Seems like a lot. Please explain.

- Tecala - 316k. Who are you? Please explain.

- Comverge - 227k+78k. You are mostly wholesale/Layer2/builders. Why? Please explain.  Why 2 applications?

- Telstra - 40m. OK, You are massive. But given who you are, don't you already log most things required by the Drip? 40m seems like a lot of money, even for you.

- The Summit Group. 1M. Greg, you are going to have to explain this.

- Vibe - 364k. Big links I know... but 364k

- Uniscope - Who?

- Uniti - Who?

- More Universities...  UTas 12k? Wow.

- Vodafone - 28m. 28 million for what? You already log the hell out of everything - that is your job.  Even Optus only asked for 14m.

- VostroNet - 221k. Never heard of them.

- YourFibre - 147k. They don't even have a web presence I can find.



...Skeeve

Skeeve Stevens - Founder & The Architect - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
Email: skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com<mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com> ; Web: eintellegonetworks.com<http://eintellegonetworks.com/>

Cell +61 (0)414 753 383<tel:%2B61%20%280%29414%20753%20383> ; Skype: skeeve ; LinkedIn: /in/skeeve<http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve> ; Expert360: Profile<https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9> ; Keybase: https://keybase.io/skeeve


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