[AusNOG] Aus Industry Congratulations Email

Tue Sep 6 01:39:15 EST 2016

Hi Michael,

It is certainly an interesting question. But, I think it is pretty simple
in that the people 'selling' the internet (layer 3) access are the ones who
are the ISP.

There is a reason you do not see most of the Layer 2 providers on the list
as they are exempt. But, if they sold layer 3 - which your customers do,
then it is they who have the obligation.  Who owns the equipment or
resources I think is largely irrelevant.

Do you sell transit to your carrier/ISP customers?  If so, then you may
well be an ISP as well.

We run something similar called ElasticISP, but we don't consider ourselves
a carrier or ISP, just as a Data Centre or someone you lease equipment from
are not carriers. We also do not sell transit at all to make sure we do not
fall under the DR requirements.

From:
https://www.ag.gov.au/NationalSecurity/DataRetention/Documents/DataRetentionIndustryGrantsProgrammeGuidelines.pdf

*Part Three: Eligibility Requirements *Eligible Applicants

1.          To be an *Eligible Applicant*, an *Applicant* must at the time
of application:

(a)        have a valid ABN; and

(b)        offer at least one *Eligible Service*; and

(c)         own or operate, in Australia, infrastructure that enables the
provision of any of its *Eligible Services*; and

(d)        (i) have a *DRIP*, or is included as a subsidiary or related
body in a group *DRIP* that is submitted with the *CAC*, and agreed, or
agreed in principle by the *CAC*, by the date specified in the *Customer
Information Guide*, and agree that the content of its *DRIP* be shared with
the *Administering Entity, *for the sole purpose of assessing their grant
application; OR

(ii) where the applicant was fully compliant by 13 October 2015, and
therefore does not require a *DRIP*, submit a *Statement of Work* in
the *Application
Form* which details activities undertaken between 30 October 2014 and 13
October 2015, to become fully compliant; and

(e)        have incurred or will incur direct costs since 30 October 2014
associated with delivering their *DRIP or Statement of Work*.
Eligible Services

1.          An *Eligible* *Service* is a service, operated by an *Eligible
Applicant*, that is:

(a)        used for carrying communications, or enabling communications to
be carried; and

(b)        offered in Australia as at 13 October 2015; and

*(c)         **operated by a carrier, carriage service provider or internet
service provider.*

...Skeeve

*Skeeve Stevens - Founder & The Architect* - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
Email: skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; Web: eintellegonetworks.com

Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; Skype: skeeve ; LinkedIn: /in/skeeve
<http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve> ; Expert360: Profile
<https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9> ; Keybase: https://keybase.io/skeeve

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 1:21 AM, Michael J. Carmody <michael at opusv.com.au>
wrote:

> Would love your interpretation of the legal advice we got, but the client
> in question is a carrier because they run network units across property
> boundaries. But strictly Layer 2 only.
>
>
>
> They use our IP addresses, and our DC routing equipment.
>
>
>
> To whom falls the DR obligation?
>
>
>
> -Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Skeeve Stevens [mailto:skeeve+ausnog at eintellegonetworks.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 6 September 2016 1:16 AM
> *To:* Michael J. Carmody <michael at opusv.com.au>
> *Cc:* <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net> <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Aus Industry Congratulations Email
>
>
>
> Hey Michael,
>
>
>
> Thank you for responding publicly. Much appreciated.
>
>
>
> But, you aren't an ISP by your own explanation.  YOU don't have traffic to
> intercept. Your clients might, but then they should have made funding
> requests which you were free to implement - just as we are going to do.
>
>
>
> This programme was not for vendors/consulting parties to develop solutions
> for their customers.
>
>
>
> The PWC "Data Retention Grant Allocation Methodology
> <https://www.ag.gov.au/NationalSecurity/DataRetention/Documents/data-retention-grant-allocation-methodology-report.PDF>"
> report states in the executive summary:
>
>
>
> "The Data Retention Industry Grants Programme (DRIGP) exists to assist
> eligible telecommunications service providers meet their data retention
> obligations under the Telecommunications (Interception and Access)
> Amendment (Data Retention) Act 2015."
>
>
>
> *Not* "help others meet their obligations".
>
>
>
> I love twisting legalese as much as the next person, but I can't see how
> you could have justified your funding as a consulting business.
>
>
>
> Note.. there is no malice here. You could be awesome guys. But this DRIP
> Funding has been a ballsup from the start and too many seem to have taken a
> lot of liberties with their justification for funding.
>
>
> ...Skeeve
>
>
>
> *Skeeve Stevens - Founder & The Architect* - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
>
> Email: skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; Web: eintellegonetworks.com
>
> Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; Skype: skeeve ; LinkedIn: /in/skeeve
> <http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve> ; Expert360: Profile
> <https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9> ; Keybase: https://keybase.io/skeeve
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:27 AM, Michael J. Carmody <michael at opusv.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> First Batter Up!
>
>
>
> “You don't seem to be an ISP. Please explain”
>
>
>
> We consult and run the infrastructure for several ISP/CSP and Carrier
> licensed clients. But we don’t advertise that and happy to just get our
> stuff done without fuss. Costing is basically storage SAN, plus one server
> plus direct labour implementation costs, a significant portion of which
> have already been occurred out of our cash flow to our own detriment.
>
>
>
> -Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Skeeve
> Stevens
> *Sent:* Monday, 5 September 2016 11:33 PM
> *To:* <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net> <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Aus Industry Congratulations Email
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> The list: https://www.ag.gov.au/NationalSecurity/
> DataRetention/Documents/DRIGP-recipients.pdf
>
>
>
> I am absolutely stunned by this list and how much people asked for - and
> got.
>
>
>
> Sure, there are people who needed the money to comply, but I think a lot
> of people are taking advantage of the system and should be ashamed of
> themselves for how much they asked for.
>
>
>
> Yes, the government did a shit job, but this is community money - needed
> for us to comply with a stupid law. Not a slush fund for people to build up
> their business.
>
>
>
> Universities - I don't understand. System Integrators - bullshit. VoIP
> providers, you are are already logging call details - why do most of you
> need anything?
>
> If everyone IT integrator in the country claimed, we'd have over 2k-3k
> applicants and no one getting much at all.
>
>
>
> I think a lot of people are buying new networking equipment with these
> funds. I am not sure the fund was designed to build the networks of ISPs.
>
>
>
> Some of the massive requests are astounding and begs the question "WHAT
> are people buying with it?"
>
>
>
> I think the AG make all the applications public since they've made the
> result public. We need context to some of these extremely excessive
> allocations.
>
>
>
> There is no jealousy here. There is a dozen of my customers on the list,
> but all mostly realistic.
>
>
>
> Those that say we should just move on have no respect for the stewardship
> of these resources.
>
>
>
> Bring on the flames.
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> Going through the list (Never heard of many of them):
>
>
>
> - *Ace* - 294k - You are a small regional ISP... 294k?! C'mon, you need
> to justify it.
>
>
>
> - *Amaysim* - 69k - You are a big phone reseller - is this all you need?
> #respect
>
>
>
> - *APN* - 373k - Now Activ8me?  Regional ISP. You need to justify it.
>
>
>
> - *Bluenet* - Aren't you just a VISP off RealWorld? 30k for what? (See
> below)
>
>
>
> - *Broadband Solutions*. Guys, Why 2.2million. You *REALLY* need to
> justify that. Exetel, BigAir, M2, Vocus are all way less. Please explain
>
>
>
> - *BT* - 4 applications? Really? Total $376k+ - Justify it.
>
>
>
> - *CipherTel* - Regional and Remote WA. 439k... Justify it.
>
>
>
> - *Cirrus Communications* - 18k. Your network is massive. Is that all you
> really need? If so.. #respect
>
>
>
> - *Cloud Comm* - Who are you? 236k
>
>
>
> - *Comscentre* - 840k... C'mon really?  Justify it.
>
>
>
> - *Connectivity IT* - 244k. Please Justify it Tom.
>
>
>
> - *CountryTell* - 180k. Curious... seems a lot for a regional ISP. Please
> explain
>
>
>
> - *Curtin University* - 368k... I don't understand.
>
>
>
> - *Easyweb Digital* - 404k. For what? Your website doesn't even say ISP,
> and WiFi doesn't count. Please explain.
>
>
>
> - *Firenet* - 169k - I think you are going to need to explain this.
>
>
>
> - *First Focus* - 153k - But it doesn't even look like you are an ISP?
> Please explain.
>
>
>
> - *Frontier Networks* - 301k - It doesn't look like you'd need this
> much.. Please explain
>
>
>
> - *GoPC* - 150k. Graeme? I don't get it. You will need to explain this.
> As far as I know, you are not an ISP.
>
>
>
> - *Griffith Uni* - 719k. Another Uni...
>
>
>
> - *Interactive Gateway* - Who? You look like an integrator, not an ISP.
> Please explain.
>
>
>
> *- IP Voice & Data / Vonex* - 290k. You are mostly voice. Does it really
> cost this much to log call data which you should already do?
>
>
>
> - *M2* - 1.6M - OK you are huge, but aren't you part of Vocus now? Surely
> you can use the same systems
>
>
>
> *- Macquarie Telecom* - A lot less than I would have expected from
> someone of your size. #respect
>
>
>
> - *Message4U* - 1.2m - Ok, so you do a lot of texts... but so what?
> Please explain
>
>
>
> - *MikeIT / OpusV* - 106k - You don't seem to be an ISP. Please explain
>
>
>
> - *Mobilizer* - 89k. Total bullshit. Anyone who has ever met Damon knows
> this is a crock.
>
>
>
> *- MyNetfone* - 3m. You guys are massive in voice. But 3 million?
>
>
>
> - *Novatel* - 698k - Baby ISP with 1 or 2 routers... Does not justify
> this much. Please explain.
>
>
>
> - *Origin Net *- 249k - Seems excessive.. please explain
>
>
>
> - *Pivotel* - 336k - You do Satellite services? That is a lot. Please
> explain
>
>
>
> - *Professional Data Kinetics* - 352k. You're based in Wagga doing NBN.
> This is a lot. Please explain.
>
>
>
> - *Radcomp / ITAUS / ITNQ* - 472k. Who? Please explain
>
>
>
> - *RCOM / RNAS*. 316k. Who are you?  Please explain
>
>
>
> - *Real World* - 787k/912k. Really Andrew? 2 piles of cash? You couldn't
> use the same technology?  It is a hell of a lot of money for a network like
> yours in comparison to many people out there. 1.7 million dollars. Almost
> as much as Vocus. More than BigAir, 3 x Macquarie and *MORE* than TPG.
> You need to seriously explain yourself here.
>
>
>
> - *RMIT* - 680k. Uni again
>
>
>
> - *SIS Group* - 191k. Luke? Seems like a lot. Please explain.
>
>
>
> - *Spirit Telecom* - 187k. Seems like a lot. Please explain.
>
>
>
> - *Tecala* - 316k. Who are you? Please explain.
>
>
>
> - *Comverge* - 227k+78k. You are mostly wholesale/Layer2/builders. Why?
> Please explain.  Why 2 applications?
>
> *- Telstra* - 40m. OK, You are massive. But given who you are, don't you
> already log most things required by the Drip? 40m seems like a lot of
> money, even for you.
>
>
>
> - *The Summit Group*. 1M. Greg, you are going to have to explain this.
>
>
>
> - *Vibe* - 364k. Big links I know... but 364k
>
>
>
> - *Uniscope* - Who?
>
>
>
> *- Uniti - *Who?
>
>
>
> - *More Universities*...  UTas 12k? Wow.
>
>
>
> *- Vodafone *- 28m. 28 million for what? You already log the hell out of
> everything - that is your job.  Even Optus only asked for 14m.
>
>
>
> - *VostroNet* - 221k. Never heard of them.
>
>
>
> - *YourFibre* - 147k. They don't even have a web presence I can find.
>
>
>
>
>
> ...Skeeve
>
>
>
> *Skeeve Stevens - Founder & The Architect* - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
>
> Email: skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; Web: eintellegonetworks.com
>
> Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; Skype: skeeve ; LinkedIn: /in/skeeve
> <http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve> ; Expert360: Profile
> <https://expert360.com/profile/d54a9> ; Keybase: https://keybase.io/skeeve
>
>
>
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