[AusNOG] NBNCo Tails to Plane Seats?

[Mark ZZZ Smith]

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Jones <paul at pauljones.id.au>
To: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>; Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins369 at gmail.com>; "ausnog at ausnog.net" <ausnog at ausnog.net>
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, 10 May 2015, 20:05
Subject: RE: [AusNOG] NBNCo Tails to Plane Seats?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
> Mark ZZZ Smith
> Sent: Sunday, 10 May 2015 6:48 PM
> To: Paul Wilkins; ausnog at ausnog.net
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NBNCo Tails to Plane Seats?
> 
> 
> 
> Ignore the benefits of lower latency to web browsing at your peril.
> 
> 
>  "Latency: The New Web Performance Bottleneck" (2012)
> https://www.igvita.com/2012/07/19/latency-the-new-web-performance-
> bottleneck/
> 
> 
> "It's the Latency, Stupid" (1996)
> https://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/rants/Latency.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before these ultra-high latency satellites are launched by NBN, why not
> spend a couple of million investigating where much lower latency TV white
> spaces could be used instead? (probably don't needed to spend a couple of
> million, but compared to the $2B cost of NBN's satellites, it's chicken feed.)
> While it probably isn't possible to avoid launching the NBN satellites, using TV
> white spaces where applicable would increase the available capacity on them
> for those who have no choice.
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.22
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11af
> 


Even if we could make a cell size of 200km how much use would that actually be?

/ I don't actually know. Do you know? Does anybody at NBN know?

/ I do know that latency on satellite is so bad that it should only be used when there is no other lower latency alternative. I know that because I remember what it was like making overseas phone calls over satellite links when I was growing up.

/ This report says satellite latency is around 600ms.

https://www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband-america/2013/February#Findings


/ Allowing for 200ms typical RTT from here to the US, to simulate satellite latency on your OpenWRT or similar Linux CPE, add 200ms to your LAN (wifi wlan0) and WAN (pppoe-wan) interfaces (i.e., adding 400ms to the RTT):

root at wndr3800:~# tc qdisc del dev pppoe-wan root
root at wndr3800:~# tc qdisc del dev wlan0 root
root at wndr3800:~# tc qdisc add dev pppoe-wan root netem delay 200ms
root at wndr3800:~# tc qdisc add dev wlan0 root netem delay 200ms

/ Try using the Internet like that for a while, and in particular try it out on your non-technical co-residents to see if they like it.


There isn't the spectrum available to do something that size (say 100 Mhz channel starting at 600 Mhz) and even if there was it would still cost an arm and two legs to build out the required number of cells. Australia is quite a big place :)

/ If it was cheaper than $2B, then that makes it more economical than NBN's satellites.

/ Regardless, I never said satellite should be completely replaced with other technologies, only that it should be a last resort when there is no other feasible lower latency alternatives.






Paul.