[AusNOG] IPv6

Thu Mar 26 23:13:18 EST 2015

I could be wrong (and I have been before ;-), but the biggest mistake in IP6
was not making it backward compatible with IP4. Hence the resistance to take
it up. 

Yes there are some good technical agruements with substance as to why we
should make the quantum leap. But they forget the human lag factor. I.e it's
not broken don't fix,  It costs money, where's my return etc.

That being said and the fact we have now "exhausted" IP4 addresses, what are
the realistic options? Bare in mind consumers/companies only really care
about "Do I have internet access". They neither know or care about the IP.
They just want their porn, don't laugh. Given the number of outside hours
clients trying to get support all to true.

Personally I thought the NBN was the perfect vehicle to mandate IP6, but the
powers that be said you can run what ever you like eg AppleTalk for all we
care. Seriously you want 21st Century tech but prepared to run old
technology. 

Mind you people have been talking about this issue for many years.

Regards,

Chris Hurley BE (Elec), MBA
Director

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From:  Michael Biber <mbiber at ipv6forum.com.au>
Organization:  IPv6 Forum Australia
Reply-To:  <mbiber at ipv6forum.com.au>
Date:  Thursday, 26 March 2015 1:53 PM
To:  "'Beeson, Ayden'" <ABeeson at csu.edu.au>, <kris at cloudcentral.com.au>,
"ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject:  Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise

Here¹s a list of IPv6 Only web sites.
http://ipv6.cybernode.com/list-of-ipv6-only-sites
It¹s only reachable via IPv6 though 8^)

I was told there are Indian government web sites and gaming servers that are
only reachable via v6 but I can¹t verify that. Also quite a few dark sites I
imagine.
Most everything is dual stacked.

Mike Biber
IPv6now

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Beeson,
Ayden
Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2015 9:58 AM
To: 'kris at cloudcentral.com.au'; 'ausnog at lists.ausnog.net'
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise

(Disclaimer: Apologies, I¹m going to be ³that guy² and argue against that
line. Don¹t take this email as a flame, it¹s more about correcting a
misconception that seems to be quite prevalent and I understand there are a
lot of factors that go into deploying / not deploying IPv6 now that I will
not cover.)

That statement is part of the problem IMHO and I¹ve seen it multiple times
on this list and elsewhere.

IPv6 won¹t go anywhere until the majority get it turned on. It has no direct
technical relation to IPv4 other than being the replacement for it.  Blaming
a lack of IPv6 deployment progress on ³IPv4 not being broken yet² is
self-defeating, it¹s the same as saying ³my water pipes still work even
though they have a few big cracks leaking, why should the council replace
them until the water completely stops flowing?² or ³nobody else bothers to
put rubbish in a bin, so I won¹t either, plus I invented this new thing to
add onto my shoes to make me higher to keep out of all the litter on the
ground, everybody else needs to buy some now too²

Unfortunately CGNAT is now a requirement for a lot of companies, due in
large part to a lack of progress on IPv6, but it doesn¹t go both ways. But
as has been said before, most users don¹t understand or care how their
internet connection works, just that it does, so the onus is on the ISP¹s
etc. to push these things along for the benefit of everybody. Again as has
been said, there is very little commercial incentive to do this, but it¹s
really going to be minimal capex to implement with very little additional
opex spending so it shouldn¹t be as big a cost issue as it may seem, at
least for basic connectivity for servers etc.

Obviously we can¹t argue ³don¹t do CGNAT² now, we are well past that, but I
would say that anybody looking at or doing CGNAT should at least have an
IPv6 deployment plan they are actively progressing, even if it¹s slowly.

The problem with IPv4 is that we can continue to do CGNAT theoretically
indefinitely, though the logging required will continue to increase and the
port ranges that are allowed for per user will continue to shrink until it
becomes practically untenable. The issue is in the meantime we are stifling
innovation and strangling available uses for the internet. In the next few
years we will see a continued explosion of devices that will need IPv6 to be
able to truly be used to their full potential, but a lot of those will just
continue to not work or be underutilised until the network under them has
the capacity to handle them gracefully.

On the topic of IPv6 only hosts, I have heard there are ISP¹s in China and
Europe that are doing this but I have nothing concrete, anybody know if
that¹s fact or not / have a link? I suspect given I can¹t find any info at
all it¹s not real, but I¹d be interested to knowŠ

TL;DR  IPv6 only works when everybody does IPv6, do CGNAT if you have to,
but make it clear to your management (or to yourself) that¹s it¹s not a long
term strategy and make sure you have some sort of IPv6 plan being worked on
for everybody¹s sake.

Thanks,
Ayden Beeson 

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
Kristoffer Sheather @ CloudCentral
Sent: Thursday, 26 March 2015 8:50 AM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise

IPv6 won't go anywhere until IPv4 doesn't work anymore.  That day is not
today despite the numerous arguments and flames I expect to receive
subsequent to this message.

Regards,
Kristoffer Sheather

From: "Scott Weeks" <surfer at mauigateway.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:42 AM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Data Retention and CGNAT - educational exercise

> Reduce the amount of data to zero - put this energy into
> deploying IPv6 instead of CG-NAT. You know you should.
> You know you can.

:: Oh boy, I am so sick of people harping on like this. I
:: challenge you to run one single internet customer IPv6
:: only (no translations) and see how long it lasts. Just

Dual stack is not doable? I thought that's what he meant
by deploy IPv6. Maybe I need more beer? Again? ;-)

scott

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