[AusNOG] Uni Graduates - Was Re: Sysadmin opportunities in Melbourne?

[Nick Stallman]

That is sort of the point I had.

If you have the time and resources to train someone, then that's great 
and you'll probably eventually get some competent loyal employees.

If you need a new employee to get something specific done in a 
reasonable time frame, just throw out the uni grad resumes.
It isn't the point if you can get them cheaper - the job simply won't 
get done.

On 06/01/15 14:53, Julian De Marchi wrote:
> Here is an interesting thread on nanog that is very relevant to this 
> discussion.
>
> http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2014-December/072247.html
>
> On 01/06/15 13:45, Jonathan Thorpe wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> As a former Uni graduate and now finding myself in the same firm 
>> (with a sabbatical in between) employing them, I agree with PRK’s 
>> comments.
>>
>> I see Uni as a way of learning *how* to learn, not being able to walk 
>> out with a complete set of skills to fulfil a particular role. In an 
>> industry that is changing as rapidly as IT, this is highly valuable.
>>
>> For many roles, it’s more interesting to me as to why someone has 
>> taken a particular path rather than the path they have taken.
>>
>> I’ve worked with highly skilled people who have no formal 
>> qualifications and others that have several “relevant” degrees but 
>> lack the ability to apply critical thinking and independent learning 
>> to adapt to a changing industry.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of PRK
>> Sent: Tuesday, 6 January 2015 2:24 PM
>> To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>> Subject: [AusNOG] Uni Graduates - Was Re: Sysadmin opportunities in 
>> Melbourne?
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Given the comments below, I thought I'd share some experience I've 
>> had with hiring Uni Graduates.
>>
>> Several (5+) years go, my employer was struggling to find engineering 
>> staff in a very competitive mining driven market, so decided to try a 
>> graduate program.
>>
>>  From memory six graduates were brought on for a 2 year program. 
>> IIRC, there were 4 technical and 2 non technical. For the first year, 
>> the technical graduates rotated through the NOC (which I was managing 
>> at the time), Network Engineering, and programming. I think we lost 
>> one graduate (careless of us, I know), who didn't find the experience 
>> fulfilling.
>>
>> For the second year, the graduates picked an area they found 
>> interesting, and worked with that team for the whole year. Two chose 
>> Networks, one chose programming.  Those three stayed on a good few 
>> years after the program ended, before moving onwards to bigger and 
>> better things.
>>
>>  From my perspective, the program was useful and resulted in good 
>> staff who stayed for several years and were well worth the investment 
>> in training & upskilling them.
>>
>> However I wasn't involved in the development of the program & 
>> graduate selection process, so I don't know how much additional 
>> overhead that added.
>>
>> In summary, in an employee's market, I'd have no problem hiring a Uni 
>> Graduate for certain roles and be happy with the trade off of their 
>> inexperience for someone who is willing to learn. However if it's an 
>> employer's market, then I'm more likely to find someone who already 
>> has some experience, and is probably a better candidate.
>>
>> Supply & demand.
>>
>> prk.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-01-06 12:58, Nick Stallman wrote:
>> Would I employ a new uni graduate? Nope - not a chance no matter what 
>> the price was.
>> They don't have any of the skills I'd need them to have.
>> Universities aren't producing useful workers in IT.
>>
>> Job postings aren't supposed to be training opportunities, usually 
>> the person posting them actually has a job that needs to get done.
>> On 06/01/15 12:48, Giles Pollock wrote:
>> I've long argued that any IT skills shortage that exists can be 
>> rectified by providing the appropriate incentives to employ and more 
>> importantly, train existing locals. There are more than enough people 
>> out there, but they are not being considered for roles as they aren't 
>> able to tick the right boxes when the job is sourced to the market.
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Nick Stallman
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The Real Estate Web Developers
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