[AusNOG] Simon Hackett's slide deck from AusNOG 2014 with added audio

Darren Moss Darren.Moss at cloud365.com.au
Thu Sep 11 11:31:36 EST 2014 

Here we go. I’ll bite. Only because you should know better.

So what lies did Malcolm Turnbull tell ?

How did he mislead the public ?

How does Malcolm Turnbull benefit from throwing out or not re-using anything Labor has done ?

You can’t compare AU with USA. We are < 10% of their population size. We also have different regulation.

Maybe Malcolm Turnbull is doing his best under the circumstances and previous commitments already made to try and deliver something that will work at a price we can afford.

Maybe we need to rally behind the projects and give the support they need to get the job done instead of constantly undermining and moaning about technology X that could be so much better, which we probably can’t use because someone already tied up contracts to use something else.

Maybe someone else tied up delivery using overpriced technologies and didn’t perform a cost benefit analysis so we are locked into GB capable infrastructure for remote locations with a handful of users who currently use dial-up or satellite technologies.

It’s fine to sit on the outside an snipe at every move they make, but I’m guessing you don’t have a better proposal with cost benefit analysis or the ability to execute and deliver it.

Of course it’s not going to be a Rolls Royce on Day 1, but it’s gotta be better than riding a bike in the rain.

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Beeson, Ayden
Sent: Thursday, 11 September 2014 1:04 PM
To: 'Stuart Low'; 'ANSA SERVERS'
Cc: 'ausnog at lists.ausnog.net'
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's slide deck from AusNOG 2014 with added audio

(Warning, drama and frustration filled post ahead)

Arguably, the biggest issue in the U.S. internet market is the lack of an options and no level playing field. With all their cable companies carving the country up into unofficial monopolies you have exactly what you don’t want, with incumbent providers having no business drive to actually compete or upgrade services.

To a point we had that too, but at least Telstra has to wholesale excess capacity.

As for the socialist call, I’d rather our wholesale services be treated like a utility than the system we have now, even with the increased cost of installation (which in reality, isn’t that much more, the quoted figure even in the dodgy weighted CBA is only 25% different and doesn’t factor in a VERY large list of extra costs, that is without even talking about  the economies of scale that had JUST started to bear fruit or the funding method that was slated to be used for most of the tail end of the build)

Imagine if our water utilities were a completely free enterprise and the businesses were competing. Sure the water price might drop a little in the first instance, but the water quality might drop off a little as costs are cut, changes are made and services are adjusted. After years and years of neglect while the water company(s) makes profit, that water is going to start looking pretty rusty, but its ok, because it passes human consumption safety levels, so don’t worry about it.

I for one would rather my water comes out of the tap as perfect as it can be from a provider that is there to simply provide a good service, not to make money, even if it costs me a little more and I would treat my data stream as the same, at least from a physical connection level.

That’s not to say that the labour rollout didn’t have problems, it did. But at least their technology was solid, the costings were based in reality and factored in all variables and their actual business direction for Australia was in the interest of the nation.

So far from Turnbull I have seen political spin, downright lies, misleading statements, serious ethically wrong agreements* and deals and the selection of an inferior technology despite the close costs without a true independent comparison or any real logic, other than “it’s not what Labor were doing so I can argue it is good”  and / or “my friends and I make more money from this way”

This is without even dipping into the slightly tin-foil hat region of the discussion with the whole Murdoch / Newscorp involvement, which does actually have some small evidence to support it.

My trust level for Turnbull is about 1% at this point,  but as I have said before, it is a done deal now and FTTN is what we will get, so at least it *is* upgradeable to FTTP, even if the cost isn’t 100% efficient, but I’m not going to claim I’m happy about any part of the process since the Liberals came into power….

Actually, I take that back, their changes to the “premises passed” measures at NBN Co I think are pretty positive.

*Seriously, the rules allowing NBN Co board members to hold shares to companies such as Telstra without declaring them suddenly change to allow it after the liberals come in, then the board gets a bunch of ex-telstra staff members and close friends / associates of Turnbull? How is that not bigger news? (Obligatory link: http://www.zdnet.com/au/nbn-co-execs-and-board-allowed-to-keep-telstra-shares-7000024441/)

Thanks,
Ayden Beeson

From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Stuart Low
Sent: Thursday, 11 September 2014 9:15 AM
To: ANSA SERVERS
Cc: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's slide deck from AusNOG 2014 with added audio

Huh? A level playing field was the objective? Are we in some sort of socialist internet revolution or something? Your altruism seems to be ignoring the enormous costs. Costs and deliverables which much more populace and similar size geographies have failed to handle effectively (there's a huge number of premises in the U.S that still can't get any fixed line internet service).

The purpose of the NBN was to future proof comms infrastructure. Maybe there's some politician who said it was meant to be equal but anyone with even an ounce of telco experience would know it never is. The best we can manage is a fixed price undertaking, a consistent wholesale pricing scheme to enhance competition and less wastage in what is essentially a government corporation.

References to copper ignores that the ROI on the original investment in copper occurred decades ago so repairs only scratch the surface of Telstra's profit margins.

I for one applaud the design decision to ensure FTTP is still an option while focusing on what they can deliver with their constraints and props to Simon Hackett for working "from within". At least we can rest assured that he along with many of the other board members have actually BUILT these things before and we aren't just pouring money into a pit with no outcome.

Stu

On 10 Sep 2014, at 12:50 pm, ANSA SERVERS <info at ausnetservers.net.au<mailto:info at ausnetservers.net.au>> wrote:
Jarred,

So your “average” consumer has the fibre money which is wrapped in so much red tap it isn’t funny, everyone wants a dip of the honey pot it is no longer funny.

The idea behind the NBN network was to provide a network that was a level playing field….. is asking for consumers to pay for their own fibre a level playing field? Do consumers run their own copper into their house because they want a VDSL or EOC??

Regards,

Matthew Matters  Managing Director / CEO of Aus Net Servers Australia Pty Ltd
Management Department  |  Small Business Hosting Sales & Services  |  Aus Net Servers Australia Pty Ltd
P  1300 933 038  |  M  0428 028 091  |  E  mmatters at ausnetservers.net.au<mailto:mmatters at ausnetservers.net.au> |  W  www.ausnetservers.net.au<http://www.ausnetservers.net.au/>
ABN 25 162 013 194 | ACN 162 013 194 | ARBN B2318 229M | #1 For Dedicated Hosting Solutions For Small Business Since 2007

From: Jared Hirst [mailto:jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 12:47 PM
To: ANSA SERVERS
Cc: Adam O'Reilly; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's slide deck from AusNOG 2014 with added audio

From that presentation simon says you can order a direct fibre haul to your house? So for the most population 100mbit is fine? Anyone wanting more thhe can haul a fibre in?

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014, ANSA SERVERS <info at ausnetservers.net.au<mailto:info at ausnetservers.net.au>> wrote:
But Darren, this is tax payer money. Tax payers want the best from
Their money not a half asses "that'll do" attitude
Regards,

Matthew Matters  Managing Director / CEO of Aus Net Servers Australia Pty Ltd
Management Department  |  Small Business Hosting Sales & Services  |  Aus Net Servers Australia Pty Ltd
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ABN 25 162 013 194<tel:25%20162%20013%20194> | ACN 162 013 194<tel:162%20013%20194> | ARBN B2318 229M | #1 For Dedicated Hosting Solutions For Small Business Since 2007

On 10 Sep 2014, at 12:38 pm, "ANSA SERVERS" <info at ausnetservers.net.au<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','info at ausnetservers.net.au');>> wrote:
Adam,

Yes 100mb might be fine for now but what about the future, from what I understand this copper in the last mile can only handle 100mb, so in the future it WILL have to be ripped up and replaced with CAT6 ( or better) of direct fibre…… which begs the comment why are they not doing that now

Regards,

Matthew Matters  Managing Director / CEO of Aus Net Servers Australia Pty Ltd
Management Department  |  Small Business Hosting Sales & Services  |  Aus Net Servers Australia Pty Ltd
P  1300 933 038  |  M  0428 028 091  |  E  mmatters at ausnetservers.net.au<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mmatters at ausnetservers.net.au');> |  W  www.ausnetservers.net.au<http://www.ausnetservers.net.au/>
ABN 25 162 013 194 | ACN 162 013 194 | ARBN B2318 229M | #1 For Dedicated Hosting Solutions For Small Business Since 2007

From: Adam O'Reilly [mailto:adam at oreilly.bz<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','adam at oreilly.bz');>]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 September 2014 12:37 PM
To: ANSA SERVERS
Cc: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog at lists.ausnog.net');>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Simon Hackett's slide deck from AusNOG 2014 with added audio

I think 100mbit will be fine.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/netflix-ceo-says-4k-streaming-will-only-require-15mbps-bandwidth/

and assuming that you are streaming a 4GB movie:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=4GB+in+90+minutes


On 10 Sep 2014, at 11:50 am, ANSA SERVERS <info at ausnetservers.net.au<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','info at ausnetservers.net.au');>> wrote:

Umm my argument mainly is by the time they have finished rolling out there 100mb nbn it WILL BE obsolete

My understanding of the nbn post liberal government was that the nbn was supposed to be a transport network for phone , internet , DTV, foxtel and other networks and applications we havent even thought off

Good luck getting  HDTV to work without buffering with multiple users in a household with 100/xx

Regards,

Matthew Matters  Managing Director / CEO of Aus Net Servers Australia Pty Ltd
Management Department  |  Small Business Hosting Sales & Services  |  Aus Net Servers Australia Pty Ltd
P  1300 933 038<tel:1300%20933%20038>  |  M  0428 028 091<tel:0428%20028%20091>  |  E  mmatters at ausnetservers.net.au<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mmatters at ausnetservers.net.au');> |  W  www.ausnetservers.net.au<http://www.ausnetservers.net.au/>
ABN 25 162 013 194<tel:25%20162%20013%20194> | ACN 162 013 194<tel:162%20013%20194> | ARBN B2318 229M | #1 For Dedicated Hosting Solutions For Small Business Since 2007

On 10 Sep 2014, at 12:15 pm, "Mark Newton" <newton at atdot.dotat.org<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','newton at atdot.dotat.org');>> wrote:

On Sep 8, 2014, at 5:18 PM, ANSA SERVERS <info at ausnetservers.net.au<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','info at ausnetservers.net.au');>> wrote:

FTTN might work for the time being but will have to be replaced with more money out of the tax payers pocket. If the government knew anything about the state of the copper network their research would of told them that the part of the copper network they are keeping is the worst effected part of the network.

This line of argument needs to stop.

FTTN vs FTTH has been discussed ad nauseaum since about 2005.  Telstra first approached the Howard Government about FTTN, the Rudd Government started with FTTN then switched to FTTH.  Now the Abbott Government is doing both.

I think it’s safe to assert that all of the Governments involved in the many different NBNs which have been proposed know exactly what the state of the copper is.

If you believe that the Government would stop proposing networks that use the CAN if only they knew about the state of the CAN, you are wrong.  Stop doing that, it’s making you look silly, and no NBN-related argument has ever been won with that point.

  - mark


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