[AusNOG] TPG Peering

Wed Oct 22 12:36:59 EST 2014

Overall I feel that this comes down to TPG's poor network management.
This directly affects their customers (who often don't know better, so
that's not a problem) and indirectly affects other network operators (who
know better but sadly have few options available but to pay TPG money).
Sure, network operators can route and tweak and stand on one leg hoping to
improve network performance into their AS, but this peering port congestion
is just another example of their lack of concern for their own customers
experience.

This is what the end users who make complaints need to know, TPG is
responsible for your shitty experience and a great quote I have heard *"There
is no congestion at any point within our network"*. Network operators of
other AS's should not be making excuses or attempting to cover for TPG's
lack of concern.
I understand that the greater business case speaks against this, but I must
insist that people at least consider breaking the circle. If TPG starts to
lose customers, they may change their tune - sadly I don't think anything
else will make them change.

Cheers,
 - Bob W

On 22 October 2014 10:37, Nathan Sullivan <nathan at nightsys.net> wrote:

> Top candidates for high traffic into PIPE NSW at the flatline period:
>
> LLNW/Limelight
> Cloudflare
> CDNetworks
> Chime/iiNet
> ABC
> Amazon/AWS
> Akamai
>
> Mostly CDN content, not sure if any of them have a better path or not.
> They would probably all be getting impacted for that short flatline period
> right now also, in terms of TPG's customers not getting optimal performance
> from their CDN edge nodes.
>
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Nathan Sullivan <nathan at nightsys.net>
> wrote:
>
>> That 9pm mark on the PIPE QLD/NSW/VIC graphs really does look hot. I
>> wonder if its only a Gig port in QLD/VIC also, being it touches that
>> mark...? Obviously a flatline at 20 on the NSW graph.
>>
>> You almost need a large peer to de-pref some stuff from PIPE IX to free
>> up some of TPGs capacity if they won't do it... and hopefully if your lucky
>> make it more expensive for TPG in the process to receive it :) Then maybe
>> the 20Gbit port will get bumped.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Chris Ricks <
>> chris.ricks at securepay.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> If the issue is due to port congestion, other members of the IX should
>>> be seeing the same problem shouldn't they? Is anyone else complaining
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: *"Jared Hirst" <jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au>
>>> *To: *"Nathan Sullivan" <nathan at nightsys.net>
>>> *Cc: *ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, 22 October, 2014 11:22:21 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AusNOG] TPG Peering
>>>
>>> Yeah we are doing that with some traffic, but for gamers this is not
>>> ideal.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Nathan Sullivan <nathan at nightsys.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Being you said its 500Mbit of traffic from You -> TPG, and you can
>>>> probably control which IX fabric to feed it into, can you just feed it into
>>>> another state where TPG isnt so congested...? Obviously far from ideal....
>>>> but 20~ms of latency is probably more preferably than link congestion...
>>>> yea?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Jared Hirst <
>>>> jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah the issue is that there is a multi level of complaints flooding
>>>>> in, sure we can route around it to say Vocus or someone BUT they would then
>>>>> try and just push it back through their PIPE peering to TPG.... so I am
>>>>> paying for it to go via a transit provider to only have it sent back into
>>>>> the PIPE peering.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am sure we can make some communities and traffic magic happen, but
>>>>> that's all pointless when I am paying TPG for their PIPE peering port? So
>>>>> why should I be penalised by them having a congested port when I am paying
>>>>> to send them traffic anyway?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regardless of the costs here, I just need to get the issues resolved,
>>>>> I have so many complaints and customers are generally un-happy, they simply
>>>>> blame us for everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Joseph Goldman <joe at apcs.com.au>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  What's even more interesting is that Jared wants to resolve a
>>>>>>> problem for - who exactly ? Does it end up being that he's a content
>>>>>>> provider and thus the eyeballs in question (gaming or otherwise) are worth
>>>>>>> $$ to him ? In which case the discussion heads in a particular direction.
>>>>>>> Or are the users in question not actually his users (they're TPG's) and at
>>>>>>> which point why would you care (business wise - I understand why everyone
>>>>>>> cares from a good 'net perspective).  Isn't this the marketplace at work ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The answers to whose customers...everyones, really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  You have the EU -> ISP arrangement, the EU -> Content Owner
>>>>>> arrangement, and Content Owner -> Content Hoster [SAU in this case].
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  The EU would get the blame game from ISP to Content Owner, Content
>>>>>> Owner would receive the complaint and likely forward to Content Hoster,
>>>>>> Content Hoster has identified the problem as a TPG ingress point, something
>>>>>> he has no control over, so has no choice but to blame it back to TPG.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  To his credit, he is actually trying to resolve the issue directly
>>>>>> to stop the viscous cycle of blame.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  It's a hard spot to be in.
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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