[AusNOG] AAPT / TPG Merge NWB

[Nathan Brookfield]

I have been assured that this migration is from one set of LAC'a to another and is not in any way a service migration.

Kindest Regards,
Nathan Brookfield

Chief Executive Officer
Simtronic Technologies Pty Ltd

Web: http://simtronic.com.au
Phone: 1300 592 330
Fax: (02) 4749 4950

On 5 Jun 2014, at 10:48, "Shaun Deans" <shaun at kadeo.com.au<mailto:shaun at kadeo.com.au>> wrote:

Matt;

We received a notification about an 'NWB Migration' happening on 15/06 with a list of services.
These services look to be iiNet AnnexM services so it looks like were about to find out if they support AnnexM.

The main fallout we noticed was an increase in loss of ppp sessions due to noisey lines and no profiles being applied.
To make matters worse there is no integration into frontier for TPG DSLAMs and the only option is to lodge a fault and wait for the techs to apply the profile.

​Cheers

S



On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Matt Perkins <matt at spectrum.com.au<mailto:matt at spectrum.com.au>> wrote:
Over all I don't believe that the people that are really effected by this are acting surprised about the networks merging. The problem I believe for most is the lack of notification. I didn't use the word consultation because they can do what they want with their network. But smaller isp's maintain there competitive edge by innovating with what they have.

That can mean using circuits for redundancy via some sort of engineered path or any number of reasons a particular carrier or combination is used. The balance is often fine and when things are changed without any notification alternate arrangements if need be can not be made on time.

I don't expect TPG to understand the pressures of running a small ISP. I do expect them to notify me with some sort of warning when they intend to change things. That way I can make a choice.

To aapt's credit their rep has informed us that they are sorry for the over site and will endeavor to keep us more informed about changes. That's a good step forward.

Matt


On 5 Jun 2014, at 8:00 am, Curtis Bayne <curtis at bayne.com.au<mailto:curtis at bayne.com.au>> wrote:


What gets me is that we are all acting surprised.

This is the logical conclusion of a consolidated retail network with wholesale competition stifled by regulatory uncertainty.

Regardless of any theological thought experiment, the pragmatic reality is that the only thing that has delivered reasonable outcomes to consumers in Australia is infrastructure competition.

This is what happens when you consolidate access networks.

On Jun 4, 2014 12:45 PM, "Mark Currie" <MCurrie at laserfast.com.au<mailto:MCurrie at laserfast.com.au>> wrote:
Sounds a lot like Microsoft....Just buy some company to basically remove them from competition, and then let the products and customers either dilute and slowly disappear or just get dumped into the wastebasket....despite the company they have purchased having had a good market presence and were fairly innovative....

Mark Currie


-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Shaun McGuane
Sent: Wednesday, 4 June 2014 12:30 PM
To: Nathan Brookfield; Bradley Amm; Andrew Jones; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] AAPT / TPG Merge NWB

This is the exact reason why we removed PIPE Networks from our carrier list when TPG made all these changes after consuming them. There were no notifications of changes to upstream network providers it just changed one day to TPG.

Just seems like TPG are up to their same old tricks ... buy a carrier - consume the carrier and spit it out as TPG whatever the cost.

Kind Regards

Shaun McGuane | CEO
 1300 722 532<tel:1300%20722%20532>
 0400 177 077<tel:0400%20177%20077>
 shaun at rackcentral.com.au<mailto:shaun at rackcentral.com.au>
 www.rackcentral.com.au<http://www.rackcentral.com.au>
 Level 3/480 Collins St Melbourne, VIC 3000




-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Nathan Brookfield
Sent: Wednesday, 4 June 2014 11:43 AM
To: Bradley Amm; Andrew Jones; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] AAPT / TPG Merge NWB

It's actually not, there are strict service schedules which outline the products they can offer to you, you also agree to T&C's during the order process which outline the service type and supplier.

Kindest Regards,
Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB)

Chief Executive Officer
Simtronic Technologies Pty Ltd

Local: (02) 4749 4949<tel:%2802%29%204749%204949> | Fax: (02) 4749 4950<tel:%2802%29%204749%204950> | Direct: (02) 4749 4951<tel:%2802%29%204749%204951>
Web: http://www.simtronic.com.au | E-mail: nathan.brookfield at simtronic.com.au<mailto:nathan.brookfield at simtronic.com.au>

-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Bradley Amm
Sent: Wednesday, 4 June 2014 11:37 AM
To: Andrew Jones; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] AAPT / TPG Merge NWB

Well really they agree to provide you with X service at $Z price Whoever or whatever they use to get it to you is irrelevant


-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Andrew Jones
Sent: Wednesday, 4 June 2014 9:16 AM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] AAPT / TPG Merge NWB

I have real questions about whether moving the services to TPG DSLAMs would be allowed by contracts in place with customers.
If TPG own AAPT, but it's still a separate business, and service schedules call out exactly what third party providers will be used to supply the services, where do the services from TPG fit into such an agreement?



On 04.06.2014 10<tel:04.06.2014%2010>:49, Matt Perkins wrote:
> I understand the commercial reality of it. It's not that it's moved to
> TPG DSLAM's thats really the problem. It's that they cut it over with
> no notification. We could not involve the customer test for
> compliance. Not to mention there would have been an outage while they
> moved the jumper that they did not inform us of.
>
>  In the end of the day it's there network. They can do as they like
> with it but a little information flow would have been much better then
> a surprise.
>
>  Matt.
>
>  On 4/06/14 10:36 AM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:
>
>> I am not sure why we are surprised really.
>>
>> TPG is going to dismantle everything that made AAPT AAPT...
>>
>> Expect them to pull everything they had intercap off Nextgen and onto
>> AAPT fibre as soon as contracts run out. This will put a dent into
>> Nextgens figures I bet.
>>
>> The AAPT Wholesale people still seem to think that they will have
>> jobs within a year... and they have the support of TPG to continue
>> pushing wholesale services. At least some good people will be
>> available for others to hire.
>>
>> It is my opinion that while TPG has some good products, I think
>> essentially they are wholesale hostile and will put any direct
>> commercial opportunity in front of any wholesale opportunity in every
>> case.
>>
>> I've had opportunities that were going to be fulfilled via wholesale,
>> who were told to stop supporting us as their commercial side were
>> competing for it directly.
>>
>> I don't believe words anymore, I believe actions and base everything
>> off what people do, not what they say they will do.. and we've all
>> seen what has happened to Soul and Pipe since TPG took over. Lots of
>> staff hired for Pipe were told they were going to be supported, and
>> not long later realised it was all words with no reality.
>>
>> Btw... Good on TPG for pushing their commercial agenda... from that
>> perspective they are succeeding... I just think it is wrong to 'fake
>> support' wholesale when they do everything to undercut it. Just be
>> honest about your intentions TPG is all I say.
>>
>> ...Skeeve
>>
>> SKEEVE STEVENS - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
>>
>> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com<mailto:skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com> ; www.eintellegonetworks.com<http://www.eintellegonetworks.com> [4]
>>
>> Phone: 1300 239 038<tel:1300%20239%20038>; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383<tel:%2B61%20%280%29414%20753%20383> ; skype://skeeve
>>
>> facebook.com/eintellegonetworks<http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks> [5] ; linkedin.com/in/skeeve<http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve> [6]
>>
>> twitter.com/theispguy<http://twitter.com/theispguy> [7] ; blog: www.theispguy.com<http://www.theispguy.com> [8]
>>
>> The Experts Who The Experts Call
>> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Cameron Ferdinands
>> <cameron at jferdinands.com<mailto:cameron at jferdinands.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Makes you wonder what will happen to the AAPT tails that are on
>>> iiNet DSLAMs?
>>>
>>> Matt, Nathan have you noticed any MTU issues since AAPT have churned
>>> those tails to TPG?
>>>
>>> On 4 June 2014 09:40, Nathan Brookfield
>>> <Nathan.Brookfield at simtronic.com.au<mailto:Nathan.Brookfield at simtronic.com.au>> wrote:
>>> > Matt,
>>> >
>>> > I'll e-mail you off list, let's just say I do know and I was not
>>> very happy when I noticed.
>>> >
>>> > Kindest Regards,
>>> > Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB)
>>> >
>>> > Chief Executive Officer
>>> > Simtronic Technologies Pty Ltd
>>> >
>>> > Local: (02) 4749 4949<tel:%2802%29%204749%204949> | Fax: (02) 4749 4950<tel:%2802%29%204749%204950> | Direct: (02) 4749
>>> 4951
>>> > Web: http://www.simtronic.com.au [1] | E-mail:
>>> nathan.brookfield at simtronic.com.au<mailto:nathan.brookfield at simtronic.com.au>
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf
>>> Of Matt Perkins
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, 4 June 2014 9:37 AM
>>> > To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
>>> > Subject: [AusNOG] AAPT / TPG Merge NWB
>>> >
>>> > Looks like some of our AAPT NWB services that were delivered on
>>> Telstra have magically been churned to TPG without any notification.
>>> Anyone else notice this ?
>>> >
>>> > Matt.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > /* Matt Perkins
>>> > Direct 1300 137 379<tel:1300%20137%20379> Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
>>> > Office 1300 133 299<tel:1300%20133%20299> matt at spectrum.com.au<mailto:matt at spectrum.com.au> Fax 1300 133 255 Level 6,
>>> > 350 George Street Sydney 2000 SIP 1300137379 at sip.spectrum.com.au<mailto:1300137379 at sip.spectrum.com.au>
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>>> >
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>>
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>
> --
> /* Matt Perkins
>  Direct 1300 137 379 Spectrum Networks Ptd. Ltd.
>  Office 1300 133 299 matt at spectrum.com.au<mailto:matt at spectrum.com.au>  Fax 1300 133 255 Level 6,
> 350 George Street Sydney 2000  SIP 1300137379 at sip.spectrum.com.au<mailto:1300137379 at sip.spectrum.com.au>
> PGP/GNUPG Public Key can be found at http://pgp.mit.edu [2] */
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
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> [2] http://pgp.mit.edu
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>
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