[AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

Tue Jul 22 10:38:08 EST 2014

Unfortunately it's not that simple.  I don't know about Jacob, but I live
in the surburb I do, because it has the only two schools within 50km that
we're comfortable sending our kids to (Missus is a teacher, and on the
federation council, she gets to hear allll the horror stories).  So I can't
simply move to an area covered by the NBN.    We had no ADSL for the first
four months we lived here, as Telstra had decided not to invest in new
DSLAMS because of the NBN coming through this year.  And then the election
happened and we're no longer getting the NBN (Although now possible the
retarded liberal version.. I won't hold my breath).

The choices were somewhere north of $1k/month for 2mbit of Cirrus wireless
(I'm guessing based on an old pricelist, they never replied to my emails
for a quote..), or what worked out around $500/month for enough 4G
bandwidth to get us by.  BDAS wasn't available, too far from the exchange
for EFM even if there was a provider doing it in our DA.

Of course, like any area where ADSL is underprovisioned, 4G was not what
you'd call usable..  Speed tests showing 500kbit down in the evenings.  But
it' wasn't bad during 9am-3pm.   I looked into getting satellite under the
broadband guarantee, but that looked to be not available because we *could*
get ADSL, if there were enough ports..

I would HAPPILY pay $500/month for something better than ADSL.  If TPG want
to roll fibre out here, I'd jump on it right now.  I know most of my
neighbours would too!  I get home from work of a night and start working on
my own stuff, and sit there half the night waiting for packages to download
if I've forgotten to download it while at work.

On 22 July 2014 10:25, Paul Wallace <paul.wallace at mtgi.com.au> wrote:

> In response to: “Yes I use crappy ADSL, I use it because i have no other
> option. Would I buy a fibre service if it was available for me? Yes.”
>
> … 4G services are sometimes far faster than ADSL2+ so why not but one of
> those instead?
>
>
>
> Surely you’re not suggesting fibre be subsidised to the point where it
> turns up at DSL prices?
>
>
>
> If you agree that 4G offers plenty enough speed at the moment then why not
> also suggest that the Government buy Telstra’s 4G network & then make a
> subsidised service available to you right way, so we can all sit at home
> endlessly watching NetFlix pics?
>
>
>
> Oh that would be prejudicial to Optus & VHA you say … no more than the
> previous NBN in buying two networks & competing with all the others .. it
> would be the same.
>
>
>
> If it’s that important to you & 4G doesn’t work for you, you could move
> into a building that’s serviced by ‘Open Networks’ TODAY & get your hands
> on an NBN style service @ 100/40Mb & pay probably LESS than you’d pay the
> NBNco!
>
>
>
> But what you CANNOT do is to criticise TPG for rolling out FTTB, complain
> that 4G is not good enough, not move to a place that offers Open Networks &
> CONTINUE to suggest that the Government MUST roll out FTTP.
>
>
>
> We all need to take a deep breath
>
>
>
> -P
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Jacob
> Gardiner
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 22 July 2014 9:03 AM
> *To:* Sam Silvester; Mark ZZZ Smith; AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering
> breakup?
>
>
>
>
> Yes, but not to download content for which I don't have the copyright
> owner's permission. I hold copyright on work (that I've chosen to give away
> for free), if I don't respect others' copyright, how can I expect them to
> respect mine?
>
> Good for you, I too hold copywrite, but that’s not the point.
>
>
> These sorts of assertions are typical 'Whirlpool' pejorative assertions,
> rather than ones that reflect reality.
>
> You assert that ADSL connections are 'crappy'. If that were the case, then
> how come it is being used to deliver over 4 Million Internet services in
> Australia, more than 5 times the next most popular wired technology? (
> http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/8153.0Chapter3December%202013)
> (Are you using 'crappy' ADSL? If so, why?)
>
> They are crappy, how can you say that Australian broadband is not sub-par?
>
> Yes I use crappy ADSL, I use it because i have no other option. Would I
> buy a fibre service if it was available for me? Yes.
>
> It’s used *‘more than 5 times’ *anything else because it’s the best
> available consumer product in the market. It still buffers, there’s still
> geo-blocks for much of the content people want to watch.
>
> And for me personally I want to watch high definition, not low definition
> cartoons/a buffering spinning wheel.
>
>
>
> You assert that the only way for people to attain their favourite shows is
> via bittorrent, yet I and others have been watching streaming video over
> ADSL from the ABC, SBS and Youtube for in the order of more than 5 years,
> including over a 3Mbps ADSL link in my previous residence.
>
> And the streams that i watch have their “low” setting at 1600Kbps. They
> need to be high definition because otherwise I can’t actually see what’s
> going on, let alone the hockey puck in an NHL match.
>
>
>
> You assert that only Netflix is able to provide streaming content that
> people want to buy, which is why the government must sponsor its entry into
> the Australian market. Yet I've watched a number of movies recently on
> Google Play, and my 2.5 year old "Smart TV" has had Quickflix and Sony's
> VoD service clients available from day one (as did the "Smart" blu-ray
> player I bought at the same time). If availability of GoT is the measure,
> then all four seasons of GoT are available via Google Play, so it can be
> streamed legally rather than illegally downloaded. Right now there are a
> number of VoD services available to Australians, without Netflix being in
> the market, so why should they get a free kick from the government over the
> existing *and* smaller players?
>
> Many people on this list can't afford to be 'armchair network engineers'
> like those who make Whirlpool-type assertions can, because real money is
> being spent on real infrastructure and we have or have had real customers,
> and have real faults to deal with. What works well enough and what delivers
> what the customers want for a price they will pay is what matters, not
> religious zealotry about FTTH being the only God worth worshipping. (And If
> you look at the above ABS link, if there is any Internet access technology
> worshipping going on, it's the mobile and fixed wireless God being
> worshipped, delivering Internet connections in numbers nearly equivalent to
> all others combined.)
>
>
>
> Armchair engineer? Whirlpool? Right, So engineering doesn’t have much to
> do with this conversation, but fast and reliable access to good networks is
> related, something which you’re obviously not wanting because you’re happy
> with your 3Mbps DSL sync. Just because you’re happy sitting around and
> watching low definition anime on a shitty connection doesn’t mean that the
> rest of us who may need high quality connectivity are.
>
>
>
> And Netflix with 200,000+ Australian based subscribers already using the
> service it seems i’m not the only one in this spot.
>
>
>
> The thing I really really like about something like Netflix coming to town
> is that it creates a need for a whole range of re-thinking the way that our
> industry operates, which is something I strongly believe Australia needs if
> we’re ever going to become a country that does something more than mining
> exports.
>
>
>
> IMO the government needs to facilitate the set up of companies like
> Netflix, not give them a free ride, and not necessarily Netflix alone. Why?
> Because it encourages a whole range of improvements that the rest of the
> industries would get a major boost from.
>
>
>
> This kind of boost would probably keep a lot of our local companies
> on-shore. We’ve lost almost every decent tech startup to London or the US
> West coast 10 years, because we simply don’t have a market, or the
> infrastructure to facilitate them. We are 12-18 months behind and there
> doesn’t appear to be any sign of us closing that gap.
>
>
>
> Netflix are very vocal about their issues with ISPs in the US that make
> the end-user’s experience worse, all in order to line their own pockets.
> Why wouldn’t a company like that be welcome here to let rip on the Go4 and
> bad infrastructure decisions? Sure, Netflix don’t need to set up here in AU
> but if that’s the case then they’re going to be even more dependant on the
> end-users ISP having reliable connectivity, otherwise their customers
> simply won’t keep their subscription active. It’s all about customer
> experience, and just because you’re willing to wait for a buffer to fill on
> your 3Mbps DSL whilst your new smart fridge downloads a new firmware update
> doesn’t mean that the regular joe next door would be.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>

-- 

Damien Gardner Jnr
VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
rendrag at rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/
--
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
 We ran to the sounds of thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
 and tore the world asunder
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/20140722/6b97a17b/attachment.html>