[AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?

Mon Jul 21 21:47:59 EST 2014

>________________________________
> From: Jacob Gardiner <jacob at jacobgardiner.com>
>To: Sam Silvester <sam.silvester at gmail.com>; Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>; "AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net> 
>Sent: Monday, 21 July 2014 3:32 PM
>Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?
> 
>
>
>Do you use ADSL?

Yes, have since 2002. I've also been on call to fix an ADSL network if it breaks.

>Have you ever used a torrent?
>

Yes, but not to download content for which I don't have the copyright owner's permission. I hold copyright on work (that I've chosen to give away for free), if I don't respect others' copyright, how can I expect them to respect mine?

>
>I’d say most people who are interested in watching their favourite shows do so by leaving their torrent client open overnight, on a crappy ADSL connection. They’d all be be extremely happy to pay $10 per month and get something like netflix in their home. 
>
>
>So yeah, our market is inhibited and citizens work around it by going the slow, illegal route. If you bring netflix to town, i’d probably also say that our favourite government would need to re-evaluate our broadband network(s) for starters.
>

These sorts of assertions are typical 'Whirlpool' pejorative assertions, rather than ones that reflect reality.

You assert that ADSL connections are 'crappy'. If that were the case, then how come it is being used to deliver over 4 Million Internet services in Australia, more than 5 times the next most popular wired technology? (http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/8153.0Chapter3December%202013) (Are you using 'crappy' ADSL? If so, why?)

You assert that the only way for people to attain their favourite shows is via bittorrent, yet I and others have been watching streaming video over ADSL from the ABC, SBS and Youtube for in the order of more than 5 years, including over a 3Mbps ADSL link in my previous residence.

You assert that only Netflix is able to provide streaming content that people want to buy, which is why the government must sponsor its entry into the Australian market. Yet I've watched a number of movies recently on Google Play, and my 2.5 year old "Smart TV" has had Quickflix and Sony's VoD service clients available from day one (as did the "Smart" blu-ray player I bought at the same time). If availability of GoT is the measure, then all four seasons of GoT are available via Google Play, so it can be streamed legally rather than illegally downloaded. Right now there are a number of VoD services available to Australians, without Netflix being in the market, so why should they get a free kick from the government over the existing *and* smaller players?

Many people on this list can't afford to be 'armchair network engineers' like those who make Whirlpool-type assertions can, because real money is being spent on real infrastructure and we have or have had real customers, and have real faults to deal with. What works well enough and what delivers what the customers want for a price they will pay is what matters, not religious zealotry about FTTH being the only God worth worshipping. (And If you look at the above ABS link, if there is any Internet access technology worshipping going on, it's the mobile and fixed wireless God being worshipped, delivering Internet connections in numbers nearly equivalent to all others combined.)

>
>-- 
>Jacob Gardiner
>@jacobgardiner
>
>
>
>
>On 21 July 2014 at 2:53:47 pm, Mark ZZZ Smith (markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au) wrote:
>By saying we should
be 'enabling businesses like Netflix', you're implying
they're currently 'disabled'. How?
>
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Jacob
Gardiner <jacob at jacobgardiner.com>
>>To: Sam Silvester
<sam.silvester at gmail.com>; Mark ZZZ Smith
<markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au>; "AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net"
<ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
>>Sent: Monday, 21 July 2014 2:45
PM
>>Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in
AU, break up Go4, or TPG peering breakup?
>>
>>
>>
>>My point
is that we should be enabling businesses like Netflix. I’m not
saying anybody should get special treatment. Hypothetically if
Netflix were to come on-shore and blow away Quickflix because
they’re better then I have no problem with that. In fact they may
help influence a change in policy that might make business easier
for other VOD suppliers. 
>>
>>
>>We’ve got
issues. When a company like Netflix comes to town, these issues are
forced and hopefully resolved with benefits to the entire market,
not just Netflix. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Jacob Gardiner
>>@jacobgardiner
>>
>>On 21 July 2014 at 2:39:51 pm,
Mark ZZZ Smith (markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au)
wrote:
>>And why should Netflix get special
treatment? Why not Quickflix, Google Play or (shock horror) FoxTel.
Why not my about-to-incorporate-if-I-get-free-taxpayer-money VOD
company MarkSmithFlix?
>>>
>>>If you believe in network neutrality, then you shouldn't believe in
anybody getting preferential treatment, whether that preferential
treatment is in the form of government sponsorship, regulation or
even zero metering of some content providers' content but not
others by ISPs.
>>>
>>>Netflix should come to Australia because they want to, and they'd
want to if they can make a suitable profit. Any preferential
treatment of them penalises every other VoD player.
>>>
>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: Sam Silvester <sam.silvester at gmail.com>
>>>>To: "AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net"
<ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
>>>>Sent: Monday, 21 July 2014 12:05 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Netflix in AU, break up Go4, or TPG
peering breakup?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm curious as to why anybody thinks there needs to be a
Government response here - not to mention it's all hypothetical so
far anyway.
>>>>
>>>>If/when Netflix come to AU, why would their model be any
different to elsewhere? Caches for networks that justify them, and
building their CDN out to peering points that make sense.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's what they have done elsewhere, why would anybody think
here would be a special or different case?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Jacob Gardiner
<jacob at jacobgardiner.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 21 July 2014 at 11:18:36 am, Mark Newton
(newton at atdot.dotat.org) wrote:
>>>>>The Government is entirely impotent in this area.
 They cannot force an offshore provider to make decisions
which are suboptimal to their business.
>>>>>This is exactly where the mindset needs to
change. 
>>>>>If the Government wants a business like Netflix and many
others to invest into Australia’s market then there should be
incentives to do so. 
>>>>>Or we could just wait until we run out of rocks to dig up
WA then freak out.
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>AusNOG mailing list
>>>>>AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>>>>>http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
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>>
>>
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