[AusNOG] 10GBase-T SFP modules?

[Beeson, Ayden]

> Are you aware that client chipsets need to support MU-MIMO too? So you won't see any improvements for a few years yet.
Yep absolutely I'm talking in a few years (at least, for mobile clients I'd expect even longer tbh), not now. This is definitely not "today" sort of stuff, completely unnecessary in our current environment.

> Do you currently use DFS channels?
Our current wireless equipment doesn't support using it; we also only have 40 MHz channels on 11n so it's not such an issue. I haven't seen any real world use of it either, nor have I seen it actually running so I'm basing my info on that purely on what I have read about it. If you know more about it, please do send it to me (on or off list), I'd love to know what the deal is there.

> But then you'll have to refresh again when 10GBASE-T with PoE becomes available
I used the 3850 POE as an example, we only have a few and it's definitely not widespread, but when we do replace all our switches they will be AT capable either way. As for 10G ports, I don't think they are as far off as you might believe and definitely won't be released without PoE support given the obvious applications; we are not looking at having anything replaced for at least 6 months -> 2 years, so I'd expect to see numerous products out by then.
Price will also obviously be a major factor, if the addition of 10GB ports means we are paying 1.5-2x more for each switch it will almost certainly be eliminated as a requirement, it's a nice to have, not a 100% required feature for us.

As for our wireless, there are numerous reasons we are seeing congestion on it, I won't go into detail but suffice to say it's not as simple as "putting more in", but that's a different story, its workable for now and it's on our roadmap to address.

> Sure, if you're upgrading your wireless now there's no reason not to go ac, and shipments are showing that. But 10GBASE-T to the AP? YAGNI.
I do completely agree, right now 10Gb is unnecessary for AP's, but I do think we will need it in the future (which is when we are going to be doing this work), or at least may, so it'll be in our plans assuming cost increases are not massive (which we shall also see)

> Are you going to upgrade your entire switch infrastructure so people within 6m of the AP can share an extra 5% peak bandwidth?
The simple answer for us is yes, given we are doing a refresh anyway, it's on the plan. You are spot on, that graph does show 1050mbps @ 80mhz channels (after you factor in overheads etc) on wave 2, however the game changer is that beam forming (with "sounding" that document called it), allowing the radio to share more bandwidth out than it has before to each client. A single client at 1050mbps used to mean two clients would then share that (or near enough) so that was your limit, but the beam forming (as I understand it) will result in a radio being able to allow multiple clients to hit higher to that theoretical maximum each, meaning those two clients may now get 800mbps each, rather than 525 each (not factoring in all the other junk that reduces it even more), at that point you are beyond that single 1gbps connection, even if only by a little bit. Those gains may or may not get better or worse depending on the amount of clients, distance etc. etc., however given it's a possibility we would like to allow for it if possible.

I know a few vendors have talked about dual 1gbps connections to provide the bandwidth, but that's annoying as most spots are not cabled for that.

I can absolutely say for sure that even if all this does happen as I'm saying it, I don't expect to see more than 10-20% utilisation on a 10gb port, but I'm not confident we wouldn't see 10%+, so I wouldn't be wanting to put them onto 1gbps ports if I can plan to avoid it in a new design.

Maybe in a few more years we might see some more bandwidth be made available to provide 160mhz channels more openly, I'm not holding my breath for it though. Until that point it'll be a small gain to have the 10gb port but I still believe we will see a gain from it.

As I said, I'm talking a few years from now, so guess we shall wait and see, I've always viewed wireless speeds as very "iffy" anyway, you'll never get anywhere near what you should, so time will tell where this all ends up.

Just to be 100% clear, I am not talking about ANY sort of upgrade that is done just for this. There is NO business case in my opinion to do this sort of an upgrade for any reason other than "we were doing it anyway as gear needed replacing and thought it'd be a good inclusion if it wasn't too much trouble"

If we were buying gear today, we wouldn't be including or even planning for it. There are too many unknowns, but in our very specific case, that isn't applicable as it's a future rollout I'm referring to, not a current project.

Thanks,
Ayden Beeson


-----Original Message-----
From: James Andrewartha [mailto:trs80 at ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au]
Sent: Thursday, 10 July 2014 5:05 PM
To: Beeson, Ayden
Cc: <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
Subject: RE: [AusNOG] 10GBase-T SFP modules?

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