[AusNOG] Commsday: Slingshot to open access to Netflix in New Zealand

Mon Jul 7 15:45:12 EST 2014

Geordie Guy, thanks for your input. I disagree with a lot what you say,
based on what I have read, heard and discussed. I don't think the AUSNOG
list is the appropriate place for continuing this discussion, so I won't
post publicly. If you wish continue to discuss privately, I am available.

On 7 July 2014 15:16, Geordie Guy <elomis at gmail.com> wrote:

> You're conflating contact law with criminal law. Given foreign
> jurisdiction law only applies to Australians by specific agreement (either
> where conduct is illegal in both jurisdictions like child sex offences, or
> in some cases tax matters) we'll set aside the criminal matter because
> infringing copyright without commercial scale or other Copyright Act
> requirements for offences is not illegal in both Australia and the US (only
> in the US). The circumvention of geoblocking has been found by
> parliamentary inquiry to not be an example of illegally circumventing a TPM
> as per the Australian Copyright Act so no dice there either.
>
> On the contract matter you are indeed contracting with a US entity and
> they insist the terms of that contract are under US jurisdiction.  This
> means using the service as an Australian national is a breach of the
> contract and they could cancel your subscription and pursue you for any
> money you've cost them which I suspect would be rather fruitless given you
> pay for the subscription.  I am sure they are actively pursuing ways of
> culling their subscriber base and associated revenue using this approach.
> On 07/07/2014 2:57 PM, "Serge Burjak" <sburjak at systech.com.au> wrote:
>
>> I'm not a lawyer, but have been in discussions with some on similar
>> matters in a different industry.
>>
>> You are entering into a contract with a US company and US jurisdiction.
>>
>> You certify to certain things, like your identity.
>>
>> By using it outside the US you are circumventing certain technological
>> controls the copyright owners have insisted on the geographical area it is
>> to be used in.
>>
>> It would seem that US law would prevail here, not local. The US has a
>> history of global enforcement.
>>
>> What could possibly go wrong...
>>
>>
>> Cable TV/ Content delivery of this type has been mainly locked in by
>> people like Foxtel. Do you think an offering for sub $20 would be a goer in
>> Australia?
>>
>> Just an opinion.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 July 2014 12:03, Skeeve Stevens <
>> skeeve+ausnog at eintellegonetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The effort for Netflix to launch in Australia is insignificant.
>>>
>>> This is how they peer: https://www.netflix.com/openconnect
>>>
>>> Which would mean, that for ISPs who set it up, would be delivering
>>> content locally to its users.
>>>
>>> The front-end of Netflix is what needs to support it I would think.
>>>
>>> I need one at home :)
>>>
>>>
>>> ...Skeeve
>>>
>>> *Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
>>> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
>>>
>>> Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
>>>
>>> facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ;  <http://twitter.com/networkceoau>
>>> linkedin.com/in/skeeve
>>>
>>> twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com
>>>
>>>
>>> The Experts Who The Experts Call
>>> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Beeson, Ayden <ABeeson at csu.edu.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a topic we have discussed at work quite a bit lately and we
>>>> have come to the agreement that is isn’t “copyright infringement” per say,
>>>> but it is definitely breaking the terms and conditions of Netflix etc, and
>>>> likely could be construed as fraud as well depending on how you have signed
>>>> up (faking an address for example, real or otherwise)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With that said, you raise a good question, if you are a legitimate user
>>>> from the US using a VPN to access it, it’s probably not the same, I’d say
>>>> they base it on the residential status of the account holder, not the
>>>> current location of them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Either way, I’d say you would be MUCH better off in front of a judge
>>>> for this rather than downloading it from TPB or other illegal torrent
>>>> sites….
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As for original content, I’d say there is nothing in the way for
>>>> Netflix to do that today here, other than the lack of the entire backend
>>>> infrastructure which would be fairly pricey just to host a few shows….
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Side note – you forgot to mention Arrested Development, one of the best
>>>> things Netflix has taken lately J
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> *Ayden Beeson*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Skeeve
>>>> Stevens
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, 7 July 2014 11:03 AM
>>>> *To:* Serge Burjak
>>>> *Cc:* ausnog at ausnog.net
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Commsday: Slingshot to open access to Netflix
>>>> in New Zealand
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to understand why you think it is copyright infringement...
>>>> you might be right, but my feeling (not valid for legal purposes) is that
>>>> it wouldn't be.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribing to a service, who are paying for the content... and
>>>> you are paying them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If I was a US resident travelling in AU/NZ and used a VPN to watch my
>>>> Netflix subscription... is that illegal?  Is it the location you are
>>>> watching, or the location of the subscriber?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, what about Netflix original content - House of Cards, Orange is
>>>> the new Black? Surely they are allowed to let us watch that?  Or is that
>>>> allowed, and now we're actually talking about which specific content we
>>>> watch?  In which case, isn't that pushed back onto Netflix?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ...Skeeve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Skeeve Stevens - *eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
>>>>
>>>> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com
>>>>
>>>> Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
>>>>
>>>> facebook.com/eintellegonetworks ; linkedin.com/in/skeeve
>>>>
>>>> twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com
>>>>
>>>>  The Experts Who The Experts Call
>>>>
>>>> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Serge Burjak <sburjak at systech.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Strictly speaking, it's still copyright infringement. The fact you pay
>>>> for it doesn't make it better. It's like getting an MS licence and
>>>> saying you are student, but using it in a business. It's against the
>>>> T&Cs.
>>>>
>>>> It would make a LOT of sense for Netflix to open in Australia next.
>>>> The pent up demand would be huge, if they could get a decent range of
>>>> programming, another problem. I think we are more literate in area
>>>> than parts of Europe, their next destination.
>>>>
>>>> On 7 July 2014 10:36, Steve Kurzeja <steve.kurzeja at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > That announcement is a bit short on the detail. Its been operating
>>>> for a
>>>> > year now, launched as a free opt-in option for Slingshot customers.
>>>> Now its
>>>> > on by default.
>>>> >
>>>> > For more detail this artcile covers most of it:
>>>> >
>>>> http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/60133677/slingshot-opens-global-mode-for-all-users
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Cameron Daniel <cdaniel at nurve.com.au
>>>> >
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Maxnet tried this last year, it lasted all of about a week if I
>>>> remember
>>>> >> correctly
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It'd be nice to see attempt #2 last longer but I'm not particularly
>>>> >> optimistic
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 2014-07-07 8:51 am, Skeeve Stevens wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Well, this is innovative... something I LOVE to see from ISPs.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> So, who is going to do this in Australia? If there is no legal
>>>> >>> hurdles, then I can imagine the ISP or transit provider that does
>>>> this
>>>> >>> would get a lot of interest.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If they won't come to us, then we go to them!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Maybe Vocus could consider it? :)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ...Skeeve
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ================
>>>> >>> SLINGSHOT TO OPEN ACCESS TO NETFLIX IN NEW ZEALAND
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> New Zealand ISP Slingshot has turned on its “Global Mode” service
>>>> >>> that alows local customers to access previously blocked sites
>>>> >>> including Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime and BBC iPlayer.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The broadband provider, a subsidiary of CalPlus, is making the
>>>> service
>>>> >>> available to all customers for free, allowing them to get around
>>>> >>> geographic restrictions.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Slingshot GM Taryn Hamilton told CommsDay the company wasn't
>>>> expecting
>>>> >>> any legal challenges to the workaround, noting that it was not
>>>> >>> breaking any NZ legislation. He also noted that Australian customers
>>>> >>> had similar chalenges to those in New Zealand.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> “We’d be extremely disappointed to se any challenge as this is
>>>> >>> about he NZ consumer, not Slingshot,” Hamilton said. “The
>>>> >>> alternative for many at he moment is to pirate content, which is not
>>>> >>> helping anyone. The model needs to change and hopefully this wil
>>>> help
>>>> >>> facilitate that.”
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Hamilton said the ISP believes the time has come for New Zealanders
>>>> to
>>>> >>> have the same choice of content hat hose in America and Europe have.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> “We know Kiwis want o watch movies and TV series online but are
>>>> >>> blocked from using the world’s best and most popular streaming
>>>> >>> services. We are now giving Kiwis aces to these sites – and an
>>>> >>> option to pay for the content hey want o watch at a fair price.”
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Hamilton said the issue extends beyond TV and movies, noting that
>>>> New
>>>> >>> Zealanders pay significantly more for many technology services and
>>>> >>> products.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The move also comes ahead of launches by Telecom New Zealand and Sky
>>>> >>> TV, both of which are preparing subscription video services for
>>>> >>> consumers.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Geoff Long
>>>> >>> ================
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If you liked this story, please consider subscribing to Commsday
>>>> >>> www.commsday.com [1]
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> SKEEVE STEVENS - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> skeeve at eintellegonetworks.com ; www.eintellegonetworks.com [2]
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>  Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> facebook.com/eintellegonetworks [3] ;  [4]linkedin.com/in/skeeve
>>>> [5]
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> twitter.com/theispguy [6] ; blog: www.theispguy.com [7]
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The Experts Who The Experts Call
>>>> >>> Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Links:
>>>> >>> ------
>>>> >>> [1] http://www.commsday.com
>>>> >>> [2] http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/
>>>> >>> [3] http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks
>>>> >>> [4] http://twitter.com/networkceoau
>>>> >>> [5] http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve
>>>> >>> [6] http://twitter.com/theispguy
>>>> >>> [7] http://www.theispguy.com/
>>>> >>>
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