[AusNOG] NBN Services (Business TC2) and MBE cutoff?

Wed Dec 10 14:44:58 EST 2014

This is a FttP deployment area so node and vectoring issues don't apply here - but they will be elsewhere for sure!... how can Telstra offer their BDSL or ATM services over copper without moving them to a node in this future MTM scenario?
This link shows a better list of services, which was obviously in a FttP world: http://nbnco.com.au/connect-home-or-business/information-for-business/fixed-line/what-networks-will-be-replaced.html#specialservices 
If NBN aren't offering "business grade" services until 2017 or beyond, how can they expect to cutover fibre in areas where Telstra is delivering any of the services (including simple ISDN!)
ULL is quite unclear - it's used for residential broadband, and business MBE - even in FttP areas, would they allow providers like iiNet to continue providing ADSL services in competition to NBN?
Seems to me that ULL would get cutoff, and that means AAPT/TPG/Amcom/iiNet/Primus/Optus etc MBE services would all be affected.

So very unclear on future of ULL (in FttP scenario) and clearly not even considered publicly in terms of FttN until this deal with Telstra is negotiated by NBN?!

Which means that with no wholesale provider offering TC2 based services, and no guaranteed future on ULL (with 8 months on the clock) ... businesses in this area are still in limbo if they don't want a residential grade service (or to pay much bigger $$ for Telstra fibre).

Doesn't seem to be a lot of knowledge in this forum either??  NBN themselves not much help unless it's a published product - they refer to all the documents which don't deal with the issue, and offer products that nobody has built...

-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Beeson, Ayden
Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2014 11:26 AM
To: 'Andrew Ehrhardt'; 'ausnog at lists.ausnog.net'
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NBN Services (Business TC2) and MBE cutoff?

As I understand it, yes, but the last I saw was vectoring was to come later (presumably once they have cut everybody over and there isn't other things like this on the lines)

Thanks,
Ayden Beeson

-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Ehrhardt
Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2014 2:11 PM
To: ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NBN Services (Business TC2) and MBE cutoff?

Wouldn't keeping ULL services in a FTTN deployment interfere with vectoring?

Cheers,
Andrew.

-----Original Message-----
From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Tony
Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2014 10:58 AM
To: Steven Crockett; ausnog at lists.ausnog.net
Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NBN Services (Business TC2) and MBE cutoff?

Hi,

Doesn't seem you got any response to this question (or at least not on-list), so I'll bite, even if it just helps spark some discussion.

There is an NBN page on this at:
http://nbnco.com.au/campaigns/what-services-will-be-switched-off-disclaimer.html

But it's less than clear on what is NOT going to be cut over in regards to ULL or other services, simply saying:

=====
exceptions to the switch-off are a set of specialised services mainly used by businesses, or phone or internet services that are already provided over fibre, or through a network provided by a building owner, or a cable internet network that's not owned by Telstra or Optus (such as Pivit or OptiComm).
=====

My understanding (from things I've heard) is that pretty much the only thing that WILL be cut over is PSTN/ADSL services. The big gap in my knowledge is what happens with ULL (ie. naked) services from other providers. Given that business SHDSL services are retained and these are essentially the same as ULL ADSL2+ services, I would have to think that ULL services will remain. Same for MBE, it's just a bunch of ULL's mashed together, so if it's staying, no reason for any ULL service not to remain ? They could of course make a distinction between ULL's for residential and ULL's for business and allow one to continue to be ordered and not the other.

The only real reason that PSTN/ADSL services are being cut over is that the govt is paying telstra a bucket of money to make this happen to get some critical mass onto the NBN. Otherwise telstra (and others) would continue to happily offer DSL services at a price cheaper than a comparative NBN service and most people would happily stay with that.

It is being built essentially in parallel to the existing CAN, so there is no requirement to get rid of the copper for duct/pit capacity constraints. This is being addressed by putting in new infrastructure as required.

I agree that some clarification on ULL services would be good, I don't think anyone really knows at this point, especially with FTTN potentially being used. They would then need to either leave the ULL go back to the existing exchange location (for ULL services to continue to work) or they end up stranding any existing ULL based services (ie. the MBE services you're talking about). There could well be a couple of different "rules" depending on what sort of NBN services the area (FTTH, FTTN, HTC, etc).

regards,
Tony.

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