[AusNOG] IPv4

Sun Mar 3 14:24:59 EST 2013

OK, so that’s one ISP from around 2,000 in AU. Woohoo!

*From:* Jeffrey Sims [mailto:jeffy at tehintartubes.net]
*Sent:* Sunday, March 03, 2013 2:22 PM
*To:* 'Jared Hirst'; 'Joshua D'Alton'; 'AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net'
*Subject:* RE: [AusNOG] IPv4

Yep, it’s available by DEFAULT.

http://www.internode.on.net/about/our_network/ipv6/

*From:* Jared Hirst
[mailto:jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au<jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au>]

*Sent:* Sunday, 3 March 2013 2:16 PM
*To:* Jeffrey Sims; Joshua D'Alton; AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
*Subject:* RE: [AusNOG] IPv4

Is it provided on order and as by default send to the modem in DHCP style?
Or do you need to ask for it?

We provide it, and set it up by DEFAULT

*From:* Jeffrey Sims [mailto:jeffy at tehintartubes.net]
*Sent:* Sunday, March 03, 2013 2:15 PM
*To:* 'Jared Hirst'; 'Joshua D'Alton'; 'AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net'
*Subject:* RE: [AusNOG] IPv4

*I don’t see Bigpond / Optus / iinet offering as a standard offering like
we do.*

* *

*Internode have been running dual stack for quite an extensive period of
time. They are a consumer offering.*

*From:* ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [
mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net <ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net>] *On
Behalf Of *Jared Hirst
*Sent:* Sunday, 3 March 2013 1:39 PM
*To:* Joshua D'Alton; AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
*Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] IPv4

Joshua,

We FULLY support v6… where did you get that we don’t? Sign up right now for
a Virtual Server and you will AUTO be allocated a v6 address that works
with our carriers. So your statement is not relevant at all in comparing us
to BP. We charge a lot less and still manage to support it with no issues,
your missing the point I think. I support it, you can get a VDS / dedi /
DSL from us with V6, however no carrier in Aus will support it natively for
the consumer? I don’t see Bigpond / Optus / iinet offering as a standard
offering like we do.

*From:* ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:
ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Joshua D'Alton
*Sent:* Sunday, March 03, 2013 1:15 PM
*To:* AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
*Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] IPv4

Size of the business doesn't really matter, its the margins that matter.
You look at someone like Bulletproof, and while they probably don't do much
more traffic than say serversaustralia, I'd bet they charge about 5x as
much. And they support IPv6 AFAIK.

@Peter, yea but there is only no benefit because the content providers like
serversaustralia don't support it. Obviously it isn't limited to just
Australia, most of serversaustralia sized businesses globally don't support
IPv6, but imagine if they did.

@Ross, might or might not make sense, but reality is reality. It isn't so
much about them footing the bill for everyone else to change, it is about
them being competitive in the market. If there is a business, 2yrs or 20
years old, that is facing growth issues due to lack of IP space, then it is
up to them to decide how they want to remain competitive. They could moan
and groan about IPv4 prices coming down and the fact they can't get any
more, or they could move to ipv6 where the potentially large upgrade cost
becomes merely nominal if they look 20 years ahead.

All these arguments seem to mirror the ones the copyright groups use.
Somehow it is the rest of the worlds duty to keep their old dying business
model alive.

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Zone Networks - Joel <
joel at zonenetworks.com.au> wrote:

So what you are basically saying ..

Small business cant afford to move to ipv6

Large business can afford to move to ipv6 but couldnt give a damn..

That is brilliant… so Aus has <1% ipv6 traffic and that is cause of all the
small business not running ipv6

*From:* ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net [mailto:
ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Joshua D'Alton
*Sent:* Sunday, 3 March 2013 12:34 PM
*To:* AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
*Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] IPv4

No one forced them into business. No one made them go for lower margins
that would mean they aren't/weren't IPv6 ready.

If they decided to hop onto the sinking ship without a lifevest, its their
own damn fault. If they went into business with software like cPanel and
did nothing to try push for proper IPv6 support, again that is their own
fault. Bigpond and Optus have very little reason from content serving
perspective to have IPv6, so it was up to the major sources of content to
get their side ready so that people like Bigpond and Optus actually had
benefit in rolling out IPv6. Do you think David Thodey is going to go to
his board and say "oh hey guys, here's a $100 million proposal to ready our
network for IPv6, of course it won't benefit anyone as none of the content
out there is IPv6, but it will cost us more if we have to do it later" and
get an answer anything other than "bugger off, not interested, it might
cost us more later but all we care about is this years bottom line, screw
the future that is the next CEOs problem"?

Maybe instead of looking at it like the world is shafting these smaller
businesses, maybe look at it like the world has given them a free ride all
this time, and now it is time for them to step up. And if that means their
business folds, well that means more customers for businesses that WILL
survive and manage to implement IPv6 before the 22nd century.

I gotta tell you though, over the past year or so there have been some
fairly massive players on the global stage that have all started charging a
lot more for IPv4, and aside from a few complaints from businesses being
run out of India or Malaysia or somewhere where low margins work really
well, the majority of customers have understood the reality of the cost of
IPv4. And none of them have left the providers, because while the IPv4 cost
increased, overall these lowish margin providers are still a damn sight
cheaper than the majority of companies.

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Peter Betyounan <
peter at serversaustralia.com.au> wrote:

So basically any new businesses that are 1/4 of that age are
collateral damage in this mess , great view.

There is no force behind change then software providers like Cpanel
who would hold half the worlds content would move faster on forward
planning on ipv6. Big providers are at fault as it has been said no
residential move has been made by the likes of bigpond and Optus so
take up has been short of nil by market as no substantial end users
have ipv6.

Laying the blame on small providers is plain wrong.

Regards
Peter Betyounan
www.serversaustralia.com.au

On 03/03/2013, at 7:06 AM, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith at yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Peter Betyounan <peter at serversaustralia.com.au>
>> To: Jared Hirst <jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au>
>> Cc: "ausnog at lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, 2 March 2013 7:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] IPv4
>>
>>
>> As I have always thought without forceful intervention by the governing
bodies change will not come, financial incentives/penalties will be the key
to this and until all big business can feel this change will not come why
would it when they can CGNAT / buy more IP's / etc etc . The issue here is
small to medium business who do not have the funds to buy more IP's will
eventually die automatically monopolizing the market by leaving the big
players which sucks for competition..../end rant.
>
> It won't specifically be IPv6 or running out of IPv4 addresses that will
have caused these businesses to fail. What those businesses will have
really done is failed to plan ahead. In this instance, they've had 10 to 15
years to prepare and plan, and to incorporate the costs of the future
upgrade into their current product prices. In most other instances e.g. a
new tax, they'll have less than 12 months to prepare for it. A business
that can't plan ahead with a 10 to 15 year notification period probably
shouldn't deserve to survive, because it also probably doing a lot of other
things wrong too, and has such slim margins that it doesn't have any
ability to cope with the reasonable yet unexpected cost increases. Would
they survive if power prices go up by 20%?
>
> This sounds harsh, but it is the reality. Businesses that aren't good at
being a business fail, and the resources they weren't utilising very well
(e.g. people, infrastructure), are absorbed into businesses that are better
at being businesses.
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