[AusNOG] Transit provider recommendations

James Spenceley james at iroute.org
Mon Aug 19 18:44:43 EST 2013 

In terms of who is the largest, there simply isn't a correct single answer, depending on your criteria or intended result :) any of the top 4/5 could claim to be the #1. 

Caida has always been the most technical (and completely unbiased) their site is well worth playing around with http://as-rank.caida.org

Overall CAIDA ranking globally (CAIDA default)
73rd 	Vocus
86th 	Optus
121st 	PIPE Networks
145th 	Telstra
363rd 	AAPT

*** Other data of Interest **

# of downstream customer AS networks 
350 	Vocus
291 	Singtel
205 	PIPE
150 	Telstra
54 	AAPT

Average AS Path length (i.e. distance from the core of the Internet meaused in AS hops)
3.882 	Optus
4.317 	AAPT
4.442	Vocus
4.692	PIPE
4.949	Telstra

# of downstream IPv4 routes (JRS removed self originated routes)
3,503 	Optus
3,318 	Telstra
2,784 	Vocus
1,731 	TPG/PIPE
734 	AAPT

# of IPv4 Individual addresses (JRS removed self originated IP addresses)
Optus 	7,806,784
Telstra 6,517,028
Vocus 	3,378,176
PIPE 	2,542,336
AAPT 	1,382,656

With the bottom two YMMV, I've tried to take out any clear routes/IP addresses used by the providers for their own ISP (I've probably missed some), it's not a science (for example I've removed Microplex from Optus) yet Singtel for example must be announced by Optus somewhere, so their total is include as it seems kinda like transit. 

As for International providers such as Verizon and NTT, it is much harder to rank them. 

The Renesys view that Ankur mentioned showing NTT as the 2nd/3rd largest Australian transit provider is skewed significantly because of their single global AS. For example, as Telecom NZ buy transit from the NTT in the USA and AAPT is a customer of TelecomNZ, a large chunk of Australia (i.e. all of AAPT's customer) will be counted towards NTT's total, now given NTT's Australian routers don't touch any of those services or are involved in the transmission to Australia it probably a little disingenuous for Renesys to count them but as there is only one global AS I don't see how they could technically differentiate. 

There is no way to work out traffic volumes. Optus and Telstra would be vastly ahead of Vocus as they have massive retail user bases and I'm not going to attempt to try and work out a method to remove the bits applying to a retail vs. transit customer :)

Overall, that was an interesting exercise. In reality, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and just remember lies, damn lies and statistics.

--
James



On 16/08/2013, at 9:31 PM, Joshua D'Alton <joshua at railgun.com.au> wrote:

> If you do the maths subtracting originated prefixes (which you need to expand out to equivalent /24s, as routes announced is /24s), then of aforementioned people, Vocus is indeed advertising the most customer routes, 
> 
> actually got halfway through checking internode and such, doesn't actually seem to add up doing it that way either. Oh well!
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Jared Hirst <jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au> wrote:
> Well we buy over a gbit from Vocus, so I am SURE that makes up something?
> 
> We are a small fish in the sea.... I can imagine how many other bigger players there are out there, and I reckon they don't buy from Telstra / Optus. So the routes = volume *may* be valid in this case?
> 
> I am not 100% sure but It seems legit to me that they do run a pretty massive number 1or 2 network?!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jared Hirst
> Servers Australia Pty Ltd
> Phone: +61 2 8115 8888
> Direct: +61 2 8115 8801
> 
> On 16 Aug 2013, at 9:13 pm, Tom Berryman <tom at connectivityit.com.au> wrote:
> 
>> Routes != volume (…..)
>> 
>>  
>> Tom
>> 
>>  
>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Jared Hirst
>> Sent: Friday, 16 August 2013 8:54 PM
>> To: Cameron Daniel
>> Cc: <AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net>
>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Transit provider recommendations
>> 
>>  
>> According to he.net they have the most amount of routes in AU!
>> 
>>  
>> http://bgp.he.net/country/AU
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>>  
>> Jared Hirst
>> 
>> Servers Australia Pty Ltd
>> 
>> Phone: +61 2 8115 8888
>> 
>> Direct: +61 2 8115 8801
>> 
>> 
>> On 16 Aug 2013, at 8:35 pm, Cameron Daniel <cdaniel at nurve.com.au> wrote:
>> 
>> I'd be interested to know where you're getting this from. Vocus run a great transit network but I think second largest is a big call...
>> 
>> On 2013-08-16 4:34 pm, Nathan Brookfield wrote:
>> 
>> They are the second biggest AU providers of IP Transit after Telstra.
>> 
>> Nathan Brookfield
>> 
>> Chief Executive Officer
>> 
>> Simtronic Technologies Pty Ltd
>> 
>> http://www.simtronic.com.au [3]
>> 
>> On 16/08/2013, at 15:40, "Joshua D'Alton" <joshua at railgun.com.au>
>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Vocus is a fairly significant AU player, if you're looking for a
>> 
>> complete alternate path for all your routes then you definitely are
>> 
>> looking at Go4, most if not all others actually have Vocus in their
>> 
>> upstreams too funnily enough.
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Andrew Yager <andrew at rwts.com.au>
>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Yep - preceisly. Vocus is great; rock solid, and very few issues. I
>> 
>> can't say never - but they are responsive and quick to act. I
>> 
>> considered the "vocus only" approach - because their product is
>> 
>> great (read "give me a discount please") - but really we need to be
>> 
>> confident that if an issue occurs that we have an alternate path to
>> 
>> route the traffic. As people have suggested from a a business
>> 
>> perspective, multiple provider routes are important, and really
>> 
>> necessary in my mind for getting traffic around.
>> 
>> Thanks for the many who have reached out and responded, still
>> 
>> interested in thoughts. :)
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> ANDREW YAGER, MANAGING DIRECTOR _(MACS Snr CP BCompSc MCP MCE
>> 
>> JNCIA-Junos)_
>> 
>> Real World Technology Solutions Pty Ltd - IT people you can trust
>> 
>> ph: 1300 798 718 or (02) 9037 0500
>> 
>> fax: (02) 9037 0591 mob: 0405 152 568
>> 
>> http://www.rwts.com.au/ [1]
>> 
>> On 16/08/2013, at 2:45 PM, Jared Hirst
>> 
>> <jared.hirst at serversaustralia.com.au> wrote:
>> 
>> +1 Dual ports / sessions with Vocus.
>> 
>> Never had an issue. *touch wood*
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf
>> 
>> Of Sean K.
>> 
>> Finn
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 2:36 PM
>> 
>> To: 'Andrew Yager'; <AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net>
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Transit provider recommendations
>> 
>> I know this sounds strange, but why not ask Vocus to deliver you
>> 
>> diversity
>> 
>> themselves?
>> 
>> Possibly they can also provide private backhaul between the two
>> 
>> points
>> 
>> where they hand off to you, and, heck, maybe even protect it if
>> 
>> you ask
>> 
>> nicely enough.
>> 
>> I use them for Transit as well as Intercap and other private
>> 
>> local
>> 
>> connectivity and haven't seen a blip in two years on Intercap or
>> 
>> Transit.
>> 
>> May as well get your carrier to do all the hard work in
>> 
>> protecting
>> 
>> connectivity to your pops - that's what you pay them for.
>> 
>> Sean.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-bounces at lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf
>> 
>> Of Andrew
>> 
>> Yager
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:51 AM
>> 
>> To: <AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net>
>> 
>> Subject: [AusNOG] Transit provider recommendations
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Aware that this question is asked all the time.
>> 
>> Looking for recommendations for a "diverse" path to Vocus for
>> 
>> 500Mbps -
>> 
>> 1Gbps (95th/burstable) with handoff in GS, Eqx and NextDC M1;
>> 
>> preferably
>> 
>> with the ability to deliver on a 10G port "in the future" should
>> 
>> our needs
>> 
>> require.
>> 
>> Had been considering AAPT but had some interesting feedback
>> 
>> around product
>> 
>> support that is making me think twice. Would be interested in
>> 
>> off-list
>> 
>> thoughts of other reasonable options. :)
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Andrew Yager, Managing Director (MACS Snr CP BCompSc MCP MCE
>> 
>> JNCIA-Junos)
>> 
>> Real World Technology Solutions Pty Ltd - IT people you can trust
>> 
>> ph: 1300 798 718 or (02) 9037 0500
>> 
>> fax: (02) 9037 0591 mob: 0405 152 568
>> 
>> http://www.rwts.com.au/ [1]
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> 
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> 
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog [2]
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> 
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> 
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog [2]
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> 
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> 
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog [2]
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> 
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> 
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog [2]
>> 
>> Links:
>> 
>> ------
>> 
>> [1] http://www.rwts.com.au/
>> 
>> [2] http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>> 
>> [3] http://www.simtronic.com.au
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> 
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> 
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusNOG mailing list
>> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AusNOG mailing list
> AusNOG at lists.ausnog.net
> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog

More information about the AusNOG mailing list