[AusNOG] News: Minister Conroy contemplating Government-Fundedundersea cable?

Sun Sep 30 10:54:29 EST 2012

I doubt anyone would argue that the $12billion to go to Telstra could be characterized as an investment rather than expenditure.

Also, I find it ironic that the fundamental point of the NBN .. at least originally, was to rightfully help people out in the scrub ..

.. but instead we're witnessing the immense waste of building over the top of up to 6 current first class fibre networks in the city!

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On 30/09/2012, at 10:14 AM, "Tim McCullagh" <technical at halenet.com.au> wrote:

> Mark with all due respect I would suggest you stop believing the government 
> spin
> 
> Your debt is a figure which you know,  no one knows how much the NBN will 
> cost, there has been no cost benefit analysis and you talk about the level 
> of debate.  The debate needs to be around what wealth is and how is it 
> created.  The NBN is unlikely to create any wealth whereas the Barco and 
> diamondtina shires do..   Lets have the discussion on wealth, not all 
> industries or sectors of the economy are wealth generating.  Water assets = 
> wealth generating    health = wealth distribution unless export income is 
> being generated from it ie: royalties on patents  services.....    So what 
> is the fed government doing? buying water licences in regional areas and 
> cloing down wealth generating farming activities and increasing spending on 
> health.  And we are asked to trust them with our comms infrastructure.  You 
> must be bloody kidding.  Lets have the disciussion
> 
> I don't take Turnbull seriously since he allowed conroy to raid the 2.5 
> Billion rural comms fund to redirect it into he city based NBN.  Now there 
> are 2 local government areas asking for some help to improve there 
> communications and there is no money......... <sarc> who care it is only a 
> few country hicks </sarc> that create food and fibre and export income...... 
> yes we need to learn where money comes from.   Everyone  needs to understand 
> that wealth must be generated before it is spent and that is what the 
> country hicks do and we begrudge them decent communications.  Shame on us.
> 
> The NBN will never be built (in its current form) for $37.5 billion and it 
> will never deliver the returns the government claims.  Also it will not be 
> built on time. For  start the ceo has little or  no network build out 
> experience he was a sales engineer.  Some of the staff selections that I 
> have come across while welll qualified on paper have no build experince. 
> Does a picture start to come to mind.   The NBN was going to be built on 
> power poles until the deal was done with Telstra which suggests the ground 
> keeps moving under the business plan, suggesting that it was never properly 
> thought out.
> 
> Then comes the catcha.  Already we are seeing cost increases in DSL tail 
> charges forced by the ACCC so that the spin masters can say the NBN  is no 
> dearer than the current solutions.  Then lets see what has happened with 
> water and power prices (government controlled utilities) over the last 5 
> years or so.  THe priced have been rising in double digit increases while 
> the rest of the economy has been flat.  What do you think will happen with 
> then NBN.   Of cource at some stage a government is going to say no more 
> money (because all government local state and fed are broke)   so o   .... 
> NBN increase your prices to meet your needs.
> 
> Does this really need to happen ?
> Does all of the population really need more than ADSL2 of fibre to the node?
> Is this the best use of scarce resources?
> 
> What really pisses me off is that the areas that currently do not have adsl 
> or equivilent will still end up with what they have now "satellite"  and we 
> are trying to justify the NBN under a nation building program.  What 
> rubbish.
> 
> Another issue with the NBN is that the current government is requiring union 
> membership.  Talk about going backwards.   No that there is anything wrong 
> with unions, but we should be free to choose.
> 
> The NBN is nothing more than a tech welfare program which the other 95+% 
> willl have to pay for.  I would suggest that the end result will be that the 
> NBN will increase prices for comms which will put a handbreak on other 
> industry sectors.  Far from being this productivity booster it will be a 
> handbreak.  Faster movies gaming etc does not increase productivity.
> 
> Also anyone in the industry that thinks that the NBN will be easier to deal 
> with than Telstra is seriously misguided.  There will be no other network 
> provider to goto so lets see how authoritarian and infexible the NBNco 
> become.  They may well be worse then the PMG because today we rely on comms 
> more than we did back then.  Talk about history repeating itself and we 
> think we are cleaverer now.  We are dreaming
> 
> Personally I am sick to death of the misinformation regarding the NBN, by 
> those that have no bloody idea or sit there with blinkers on.   This may 
> come as  shock to some but governments are very bad at picking winners. 
> This will make pink bats  and BER look like prudent spending, unless it is 
> changed to be based on need.  That is what we do with our home budgets we 
> purchase services and product based on our NEEDs.  We should not be forced 
> to pay for someone elses wants
> 
> Finally the fed government is the regulator and legistlature, so it should 
> not be the operator or network owner otherwise there is a conflict of 
> interest in prosecuting the best solutions for the nation.   NBN = Not 
> Bloody Needed
> 
> Regards
> 
> Tim
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark Newton" <newton at atdot.dotat.org>
> To: "Kai" <vk6ksj at westnet.com.au>
> Cc: <ausnog at lists.ausnog.net>
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 6:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] News: Minister Conroy contemplating 
> Government-Fundedundersea cable?
> 
> 
>> 
>> On 30/09/2012, at 1:13 AM, Kai <vk6ksj at westnet.com.au> wrote:
>> 
>>> Outback Qld goes it alone for high-speed internet
>>> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-29/outback-qld-goes-it-alone-for-high-speed-internet/4287308
>> 
>> For the last four years, one of the prongs of the coalition's attack on 
>> the NBN
>> has been on spending grounds: "$50b of spending when we're already in 
>> debt!" they
>> say.
>> 
>> Then earlier this year even Malcolm Turnbull acknowledged that that isn't 
>> actually
>> going to happen, because the NBN is a capital investment (which will earn 
>> a
>> commercial return) rather than expenditure.  The Government isn't spending 
>> money on
>> building a network, they're buying shares in a company and expecting a 
>> return
>> above the bond rate, until 5 years after the network is built, at which 
>> point they'll
>> get their capital back.
>> 
>> I'm in debt:  I have a house to pay off.  The fact that I owe money to 
>> someone doesn't
>> mean I can't choose to invest elsewhere while the debt is being paid off. 
>> Same goes
>> for the government.
>> 
>> Anyway, now that the coalition has finally acknowledged that the NBN is an 
>> investment
>> rather than a debt, these councils want a $16m handout from the government 
>> (expenditure,
>> not debt)
>> 
>> Sometimes I truly believe that the quality of our national debates would 
>> be better
>> if schoolchildren were taught what money is and where it comes from.
>> 
>> - mark
>> 
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